Confused about reloading .223 80gr ammo

[XTR]

I do shoot Hornady 80's at 600 and at 1,000 when the wind is not blowing, but from a bolt gun. At 600 I load 23.7 gr. of Varget. My C.O.L. is 2.610. I won't mention the 1,000 yard load. I doubt it would be safe in an AR.

My F-TR 80Amax is loaded to about that exact OAL (actually 2.616) in LC brass. I'm loading a bunch of H4895 behind them. (more than you are using w/ Varget). They shoot really well at 600. I would not think you could or would want to try to run them in a gas gun though.

 

[dantiff2]

It seems a lot of people have good luck with Varget but I can't get it to work for me at all no matter what bullet I use. I get much better results with IMR 4064 for some reason. Also not one of my AR's likes the 60gr range of bullets either, it's 55gr or 70's that work in mine. As soon as I finish loading up some plinking .223's I'll start playing around with the 80gr bullets and see what I come up with.

I have found that the use of magnum primers with Varget is the worst combination in my loads. Any of the standards such as the 400's and fed 205's group and shoot across a chrono far superior.. This is both from an AR and a bolt gun.

Dan

 

[Thumb]

OK, got a chance to measure my ogive on the one AR that I want to shoot the 80gr with and either I'll have to scrap the idea or come up with a different load data than the books say. The book data says to have a OAL of 2.550" which if I do the ogive of the round is 2.040". The ogive of the AR is 2.018". So.... If I do load some 80gr rounds up I will have to have an OAL of about 2.528" which would be right on the lands and 2.518" to be .010" off the lands. Of course I would have to adjust the suggested powder amount. Say if I used Varget, the load data says 23.0gr as the low and 25.0gr as the max, I'm thinking maybe to start off with maybe 22.0gr?

Any suggestions other than buy a bolt action?

 

[ZenArchery]

If you are truly at 2.018 might want to check your head space. Even with Wylde barrels they measure short end 2.240. Standard 223/5.56 AR is much longer 2.255+ Most mag length is 2.250 +/-.003
As for going under the suggested 23.0gr for the 80gr bullet I am not sure which load book you are using but I alway stay within specs. I couldn't imagine 22.0gr jamming the bullet in the barrel but performance might suffer, "might?"
If you are absolutely sold on the 80gr bullets you can look for some custom hand turned ultra spec bullets. But you'll be paying close to 1.00 a round for the bullet.

I am curious about the DT Tac. bullets you were shooting. I don't know anything about them and they probably won't tell you but I would try and contact them and let them know what you are trying. See if they are willing to let you know what powder they are using and try that. Again the probably won't tell you but its worth a try.

The easier solution load a lighter bullet.

 

[Thumb]

I've got everything locked up now for the night and I have surgery tomorrow morning but when I get to it, I'll check everything out you said and double check the ogive again but I did check 3 times with 2 different bullets and got the same measurement +/- .002" max. I'll also check the ogive with some 75gr and 77gr bullets that I have loaded and shot but never worried about the ogive on them, they did shoot great at 600yds though. Only reason I want to try the 80's is just for a little more advantage with wind, not really thinking I'll get better groups but you never know.

 

[Thumb]

I went out into the shop and did measure some of the headspace on my cases and they are perfect. Now on the other hand the Hornady OAL gauge I have and the .223 modified case that came with it the headspace is not, it sticks out over the max by about .006". I don't know if it's suppose to be like that or not.

Earlier when I was measuring the ogive and got those numbers I did take a case with a 80gr bullet installed at the suggested length of 2.550" and put it into the chamber and it would not go in all the way. I did not measure it but from what I could see it was at least a good 1/8" from seating. So the bullet is definitely hitting the lands way before the round is seated into the chamber.

I'll do some more testing tomorrow if I feel good enough after the surgery.

 

[mac86951]

I went out into the shop and did measure some of the headspace on my cases and they are perfect. Now on the other hand the Hornady OAL gauge I have and the .223 modified case that came with it the headspace is not, it sticks out over the max by about .006". I don't know if it's suppose to be like that or not.

Earlier when I was measuring the ogive and got those numbers I did take a case with a 80gr bullet installed at the suggested length of 2.550" and put it into the chamber and it would not go in all the way. I did not measure it but from what I could see it was at least a good 1/8" from seating. So the bullet is definitely hitting the lands way before the round is seated into the chamber.

I'll do some more testing tomorrow if I feel good enough after the surgery.

I too became confused about 80gr loading when I came across the Western powder load data (ie ramshot and accuracte) and sure enough they have data published for 80 and 90gr loaded to 2.260" (yikes!). I haven't seen that in any other load manual, nor would I recommend it.

In a later section they have loads for 80 and 90 in 223 custom chamber, these are reasonable; IME the info here has produced better results.

For single loading 80gr, id suggest start with 22.5gr for your 2.518" col. Check out Noslers 5.56 data for reference on COL with 80gr.

-Mac

 

[Thumb]

Thanks Mac, I'll try that. The Nosler book is the only one I don't have so maybe I'll get that one. I need to find out what the DT Tactical used for their 80gr ammo because the COAL on there's is 2.234. Maybe I can get info from them in a round-about way.

 

[mac86951]

Thanks Mac, I'll try that. The Nosler book is the only one I don't have so maybe I'll get that one. I need to find out what the DT Tactical used for their 80gr ammo because the COAL on there's is 2.234. Maybe I can get info from them in a round-about way.

Good print to have, load data is free online. Check their website

 

[Thumb]

I just ordered the book online, should have it by tomorrow. My surgery went well but I'm still numb so we'll see how I feel later and I can go out and do some more testing with the ogive of the chamber. After thinking about the numbers I got yesterday, I'm thinking they might be wrong like ZenArchery is wondering.

 

[Fotheringill]

Thumb

"...My surgery went well but I'm still numb...."

You are one DRIVEN guy.

On topic as to loads, etc., as I am sure you already know, load data from one manufacturer of bullets or powder or, let's say Lyman, which does neither, there is going to be a huge range of loads to try. I have a Savage 12 F/TR in .223 with an extremely tight, short chamber and 1:7 twist. It is so short 80 gr bullets seat past the neck to get off the lands. I limit myself in weight to 75 gr.. There is no easy answer other than find the best load and a bullet that will not seat too short and go from there.

 

[Thumb]

I'm beginning to find that out with the 80gr bullets. If I have to I'll try my other AR's and see what they measure, I've got 6 to choose from, maybe one of them will work. If not I'll have about 500 80gr bullets from 4 different manufacturers for sale.

 

[Thumb]

Went through the 4 different brands of 80gr bullets again and testing ogive on two different barrels this time. Both barrels gave me pretty close the same ogives on all bullets. The best bet is to try out the DT Tactical bullet which I believe to be Nosler 80gr Match bullets which are the shortest of all the brands by an average of 0.075". Using these I can load up at an OAL of 2.4490" which will take me 0.010" off the lands. I'll know for sure when I get some Nosler bullets in on Saturday and measure them to make sure. I'll contact DT and see if I can get some info on what powder they used, if so I'll let you all know.

 

[Mozella]

.................. snip........It is so short 80 gr bullets seat past the neck to get off the lands. I limit myself in weight to 75 gr.. There is no easy answer other than find the best load and a bullet that will not seat too short and go from there.

There is another solution. Last year I ordered a .223 barrel chambered for 75gr bullets maximum, but later on I decided I wanted to try 80gr VLDs and some 90gr SMKs.

I bought a PT&G "throater" and drive handle for, if I remember correctly, around 150 bucks or so. I made some (many actually) careful measurements and increased the length of my throat using the reamer. No need to remove the barrel. Now I have the exact throat dimensions I want.

CAUTION: This is easy as pie and any careful DIY shooter who plays being a gunsmith in his garage can do it; however, it takes VERY little effort to make this cut. The first timer should "sneak up" on the final cut in several stages. Don't try to make the whole cut in one pass unless you've done this before and be sure to MEASURE, MEASURE, MEASURE.

 

[Thumb]

That's a possibility on the "throater". I could ask my local gunsmith if he could do it and possibly might be cheaper if he already has the tools to do it. I do have a spare barrel that I could try it with but it's only a 18" and I'd rather use a 20" or longer. Thanks for the idea.

Looking at the Nosler load data for their 80gr HPBT bullet I can load with a OAL of 2.360" which would work with my barrel as is. I'm pretty sure their bullet is shorter than the others(Hornady, Berger, Sierra) which is why the shorter OAL works. I'll know for sure Saturday when I get some of their bullets.

 

[MGYSGT]

Just a note about the throat reamer. It only takes a couple of turns, if that much, to do the job. I got distracted by honey doo's and ended up taking too much off. That PT&G is very sharp.

 

[Thumb]

Thanks for that info in case I decide to do it myself. If I do I'll do 1/8th turns at a time!

 

[fotohunt]

My go to 600 yard slow fire service rifle(AR) was 24.5 gr Tac with 80 gr pointed Sierra MK. 2820 fps out of my ar w/20" barrel and 2870 out of my bolt gun w/ 24" barrel. This load was based on an AMU load. It shoots very well and was single loaded. OAL was 2.650 in a Wylde chamber.

 

[Thumb]

Went out and tested some loads I made up yesterday and the outcome wasn't too bad. I tested 3 different bullets(Nosler, Sierra, and Berger) with 2 different powders(RL-15 and TAC). My worst group at 200yds was about 3" for 5 shots and my best was about 1.5" at 200yds. The winning load today was the Berger VLD 80gr HPBT on top of 22.5gr of TAC with a OAL of 2.417". In all cases though the RL-15 was the worst of all for some reason. Next time out will be using the same components but with .5gr more of powder which still leaves me another .5gr away from max.

 

[timeout]

I'm shooting 75 gr. Amaxes in a Ruger Predator 1 in 8 twist. 22.8 gr. of 8208XBR, 2530 fps from a 16 1/2" barrel. OAL is 2.554" which is .010" off the lands. I did not have to throat the barrel. Freebore was almost perfect from the factory. The magazine is a whole different story altogether though. That required extensive modification. With a stock mag, the bullet needs seated to where it falls into the case before it would fit into it. I only have shot it out to 300 yards. Not a tack driver but shoots decent. No problem on a coyote sized critter to 300. I don't have a ton of woodchucks here, but did shoot one around my buildings with it.