Comparing AR-Comp with H4895

[Mulligan]

I did not realize just how close these two powders are, in regards to velocity (at least in my Dasher).
They are nearly in lock-step with each other at 50*F, again at 4800’ in my Dasher.



I shot two ladder tests today and the above velocities are from my Lab-Radar.
I never observed any pressure signs during these ladder tests.
I was shooting once fired Lapua Brass, Berger 105 VLD’s, and CCI-450 primers.

I assumed the AR-Comp was a bit faster than H4895 so I started lower and had lower max loads.
Both ladders indicated good nodes to start with. This is a new Krieger .237 4 grove barrel with an Ezell tuner installed (my first adventure with tuners).
CW

 

[Rodney]

I sometimes use H4895 load data when I want to use AR-Comp in a cartridge that doesn’t have load data for AR-Comp. Of course I start low to be safe. But just the fact that if there is load data for H4895 for a particular cartridge. I can rest assured that AR-Comp will probably work out with that particular cartridge. My 243 is a good example.

 

[Mulligan]

I sometimes use H4895 load data when I want to use AR-Comp in a cartridge that doesn’t have load data for AR-Comp. Of course I start low to be safe. But just the fact that if there is load data for H4895 for a particular cartridge. I can rest assured that AR-Comp will probably work out with that particular cartridge. My 243 is a good example.

I never reached max in either ladder test. Have you found the max charges to be similar between these two powders?

CW

 

[Rodney]

To be honest, I haven’t used H4895 very much. Noticed the similarities between the two powders through loading manuals. Confirmed my conclusions with my chronograph that the two were very similar. To answer your question, I don’t know if the max charges are the same. But, I would think they might be close to each other.

 

[watercam]

FWIW H4895 w/ .308/155s reached max .5 gr. above the starting load for me. Granted the bullets were very long for their weight (Lapuas) and with my short throat were seated well into the cases but the load works very well regardless.
Do wish the powder did not look EXACTLY like Varget.

 

[Mulligan]

FWIW H4895 w/ .308/155s reached max .5 gr. above the starting load for me. Granted the bullets were very long for their weight (Lapuas) and with my short throat were seated well into the cases but the load works very well regardless.
Do wish the powder did not look EXACTLY like Varget.

Have you tried AR-Comp in that rifle? If so, how did it compare?
CW

 

[Dusty Stevens]

How does it look on target? A lot of powders look good over the chrony but really suck on target

 

[watercam]

Looks very good at 600 and 1K. Shoots w/ a bit less vertical than
the Berger FBs but it really is a toss up there. I found a deal on 1000 of the Scenar-L's and they are really concentric but they are LONG. Berger Twist Calculator says I am dropping 4% BC but they are still supersonic all the way. Next barrel will have 12"-11" twist as opposed to 13" currently to optimize both bullets.

 

[Mulligan]

How does it look on target? A lot of powders look good over the chrony but really suck on target

Dusty, all I have shot is the ladder test, I have no idea how groups look if that is what you were asking.
CW

 

[johara1]

That is a comparison with one lot of H4895, I have 6 lots and all show different velocity....... jim

 

[Ned Ludd]

FWIW H4895 w/ .308/155s reached max .5 gr. above the starting load for me. Granted the bullets were very long for their weight (Lapuas) and with my short throat were seated well into the cases but the load works very well regardless.
Do wish the powder did not look EXACTLY like Varget.

H4895 is a fantastic powder for .308 bullets up to about 175-185 gr. Personally, I think it's a little fast for 200s, but some have even used it successfully with those. H4895 kernels are ~30% lighter than Varget, but you're right - they are very, very similar in appearance. Just out of curiosity - how large are the kernels of AR-Comp?

 

[Mulligan]

H4895 is a fantastic powder for .308 bullets up to about 175-185 gr. Personally, I think it's a little fast for 200s, but some have even used it successfully with those. H4895 kernels are ~30% lighter than Varget, but you're right - they are very, very similar in appearance. Just out of curiosity - how large are the kernels of AR-Comp?

Stand by a minute, cooking pork green chili stew at the moment.
Will get you a pic of the two side by side.


CW

 

[Mulligan]

H4895 is a fantastic powder for .308 bullets up to about 175-185 gr. Personally, I think it's a little fast for 200s, but some have even used it successfully with those. H4895 kernels are ~30% lighter than Varget, but you're right - they are very, very similar in appearance. Just out of curiosity - how large are the kernels of AR-Comp?

The black Kernals are AR-Comp and green kernals are H-4895

On 1/4” grid paper
CW

 

[Bc'z]

Noticed the h4895 has a more uniform cut compared to the alliant.
This could make a big difference in trickling final charge weight.
Did you notice a difference when loading?

 

[Ned Ludd]

I would add to Bc'z comment above that the AR-Comp looks a lot more like IMR4895 kernels to me...much darker and more irregularly-shaped as compared to the H4895 kernels. In any event, thanks for posting the picture @Mulligan!

 

[Mulligan]

Noticed the h4895 has a more uniform cut compared to the alliant.
This could make a big difference in trickling final charge weight.
Did you notice a difference when loading?

No using the FX120i with auto gizmo, it never missed a beat. It is kind of funny, when you zoom in on the photo, the goofy shape of the Alliant powder does jump out at you.
CW

 

[Terry]

Thanks for the report!

 

[jsthntn247]

I can tell you AR Comp fills up a 223 case more at the same charge weight and causes more pressure. The kernals are also heavier than 4895 by a good bit. It shoots good though.

 

[kyreloader]

H4895 is a fantastic powder for .308 bullets up to about 175-185 gr. Personally, I think it's a little fast for 200s, but some have even used it successfully with those. H4895 kernels are ~30% lighter than Varget, but you're right - they are very, very similar in appearance. Just out of curiosity - how large are the kernels of AR-Comp?

I personally know the man who tied the National 1000 yard F/TR class record who shoots 200s with H4895. Didn’t seem too fast during that relay or for his second place FTR overall at this year’s Nationals.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I personally know the man who tied the National 1000 yard F/TR class record who shoots 200s with H4895. Didn’t seem too fast during that relay or for his second place FTR overall at this year’s Nationals.

It's an individual thing, which is why I stated "IMO". Never said you can't use H4895 with 200s, in fact, I shot the 200.20X bullet for quite some time over H4895. I went back to Varget simply because the I didn't care for the recoil impulse with H4895, which tends to be more of a sharp "crack" as opposed to a more gentle push. So for me, H4895 is a little too fast for 200 gr bullets. The extra 20-25 fps you can get with H4895 over Varget isn't really much of a difference, so I prefer the slightly slower powder for reasons of gun handling.