Clickers

[shoot4fun]

@Uthink Uknow I think can get you set up with a custom ring die to help with the clicker problem.
I have not tried one but it is made to order using measurements from your fired brass.

 

[Chiquita]

great info and good explanation.

Thanks for sharing the knowledge.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Those that shoot a lot of Short Range Benchrest, especially the PPC, run into this as a common happening. When you shoot loads that push a 68 grn bullet at 3400+ FPS, it’s going to happen.
I borrowed an idea from Charles Huckabe that does cure it, for several firings if you are willing to do it every time.
Basically, it is just a Redding Body Die with the shoulder bored out. All that is left is the tapered part that sizes the body. You use an arbor press to push the fired cas in flush, flip the die around, and push it out.
this does away with the shell holder, and allows the die to work better on the web of the case.
the trick is boring that shoulder out. I use a carbide drill, then a carbide boring bar to make sure.
Sometimes I will get a click after just 4 firings. This allows me to keep the brass going..........Until the primer pockets finally give up the ghost.

 

[Steve Blair]

Those that shoot a lot of Short Range Benchrest, especially the PPC, run into this as a common happening. When you shoot loads that push a 68 grn bullet at 3400+ FPS, it’s going to happen.
I borrowed an idea from Charles Huckabe that does cure it, for several firings if you are willing to do it every time.
Basically, it is just a Redding Body Die with the shoulder bored out. All that is left is the tapered part that sizes the body. You use an arbor press to push the fired cas in flush, flip the die around, and push it out.
this does away with the shell holder, and allows the die to work better on the web of the case.
the trick is boring that shoulder out. I use a carbide drill, then a carbide boring bar to make sure.
Sometimes I will get a click after just 4 firings. This allows me to keep the brass going..........Until the primer pockets finally give up the ghost.

Now, that is full length resizing.

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Every cartridge and brass manufacture has to be dealt with a little differently. You learn by trial and error how much smaller a die has to be than the chamber to ensure long brass life without issues. Once you know that, then you also know how much larger the chamber has to be over the virgin case head. A 6br needs very different dimensions in these areas than a 338 Lapua for example. Many have struggled with the larger cases because they apply the same chamber and sizing specs that works in the small stuff. I have made push through dies to salvage cases and it did work. But the best way in my opinion is to just get a good sizing die to begin with and you'll never have any trouble.

Does anyone make a small base saum die?

 

[Switchbarrel]

Basically, it is just a Redding Body Die with the shoulder bored out. All that is left is the tapered part that sizes the body. You use an arbor press to push the fired cas in flush, flip the die around, and push it out.
this does away with the shell holder, and allows the die to work better on the web of the case.
the trick is boring that shoulder out. I use a carbide drill, then a carbide boring bar to make sure.

Could you do the same with one of PBike’s
ring dies?

-Rick

 

[BoydAllen]

There are some related issues involved. One is die reach, vs. chamber reach. If you look at bunch of regular sizing dies, you will see a generous radius/chamfer at the bottom opening. This limits how close to the bottom of the case the die can size. If the chamber wall reaches farther down the case than the die can, you can have issues.

Some time back, I had a case, that had been fired a lot and used to test various loads including some warm ones, start clicking. The die that I was using is an unusual one, in that it has interchangeable base "bushings" that thread into the body of the die. These pieces have almost no chamfer. The shell holder that I was using had been reduced in height (cut down on a lathe) by about .014 so that I had a small gap between the shell holder and the base of the die with the base piece screwed all the way in. Taking a chance with the fine threads, I decided to lower the ring by unscrewing it until it just touched the shell holder with the press ram at the top of its stroke. That solved the problem. As long as I left the die that way, I had no more clicker.

Sometimes fellows use tighter dies to deal with this, but I think what they are doing is pulling down the problem area by sizing the area right next to it. In my case I worked directly on the area that needed sizing. No regular die could reach it.

I have a couple of ring dies for PPC. One is used with a regular shell holder. The other has a pusher that fits where the shell holder does on the ram. The problem with the latter is the rim is large enough in diameter to cause a problem pushing the case through. Knocking the case back out with a punch is a pain and takes a pretty hard blow, even with normal lubes.

Others have stayed away from this problem by using reamers that cut chambers that have optimal clearance in this area on unfired brass. With that initial clearance, after the first firing the case is sized to a workable clearance, that leaves enough room to compensate for the additional spring back as the case hardens from repeated firing and sizing.

My point being that chamber design is also an issue.

I knew a fellow years back that told me that when he tried a slightly smaller reamer that although the initial rounds worked fine, that the cases quickly developed into clickers with the same loads that he had been using before that chamber, and when he went back to his original reamer the problem went away.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

A ring die actually sizes into the groove. Cant get any more sized than that. Its just like the die jackie describes except works with their modified shell holder

 

[Hoser]

I run my 223 and 308 based brass through my roll sizer.

Gets rid of clickers and snugs up the primer pockets a touch also.

 

[22DASHER]

I run my 223 and 308 based brass through my roll sizer.

Gets rid of clickers and snugs up the primer pockets a touch also.

Sexy! I want to see what the rest of your room looks like!

 

[Alex Wheeler]

A properly spec'd sizing die, negates the need for a ring, roll, or small base die. Those are all fixes for a poorly sized die.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Jackie,
Can you post some pics of your die? Having a hard time visualize.
thanks
Chris

Jackie,
Can you post some pics of your die? Having a hard time visualize.
thanks
Chris

I will take a picture tomorrow.

 

[wvlongshot]

Dumb question, but why not just cut the whole top off above shoulder? Abrasive wheel cutoff, face it in the lathe. Asking for a friend.......

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dumb question, but why not just cut the whole top off above shoulder? Abrasive wheel cutoff, face it in the lathe. Asking for a friend.......

If you cut it off it wont be long enough for the press in most cases. A 45acp die is easier to modify if you go this route

 

[wvlongshot]

If you cut it off it wont be long enough for the press in most cases. A 45acp die is easier to modify if you go this route

Makes sense.

 

[rwj]

For those that have modified dies... are most made from case hardened, or thru hardened, steel?

 

[STS]

They are case hardened only. I've modified several dies to do the 'ring die' function. It's not difficult to do and It does solve the clicker problem. The dies that I've worked on are all standard dimensions not small base dies. I take about .030 off the bottom of the die and bore out the shoulder/neck. Seems to me it's not a diameter issue but a length issue. My dies work well with some pretty hot ammo.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Dumb question, but why not just cut the whole top off above shoulder? Abrasive wheel cutoff, face it in the lathe. Asking for a friend.......

In all honesty, I never thought of that.

Here is what I use. You do have to have a fairly stout arbor press to push the case in with sizing wax applied, Ignore the rust. I made this from an old PPC DIE I had laying around.

 

[whatwind?]

A properly spec'd sizing die, negates the need for a ring, roll, or small base die. Those are all fixes for a poorly sized die.

Is standard .002 sizing of body and you suggest .004 for magnums? Vs finish chamber reamer

JGS is .004 under correct?

 

[600yards]

Alex on the 284 Winchester have you been able to spec a reamer that doesn’t have clickers after 2 to 3 firings. I have tried 3 different 284 Winchester reamer designs on the rifles I’m building for myself for F Class. I’m using Lapua or Norma brass when it’s new the base will start at around .498 or less then after a couple firings just above the rim will grow to.499 or .500 and the clickers start and it drives me nuts. I built a die that I use on my bigger arbor press to bring the brass from the.200 dat. line down to the extraction grove back to.498 it’s good again for a couple more firings then the clickers comes back. Had several custom resizing dies made too. At F Class National this year I was visiting with some of the other shooters running the 284 Winchester that weren’t having bolts lift problems so I know it’s possible but I haven’t figured it out yet. I am running the usual H4831 around 2750 to 2780 and 180 hybrids. So the last 10 years I have been running the 284 Shehane at the 284 Winchester velocity with no problems at all which doesn’t make sense to some to run the Shehane that slow but It’s very accurate at that velocity with good brass life and it doesn’t have the clicker problems. If I could figure out how to get the 284 Winchester to run for me without hard bolt lifts it would be simpler to run. Thanks Austin Warfield