Cleaning with Abrasives and using Fire Lapping kits and warranty

[jelenko]

Another very interesting test thank you.
What rpm were you spinning the rod at?

Right. I meant to include that.
I don't know exactly, but it was several hundred RPM.

 

[TA17rem]

I was kind of old school be kind to your barrel and never really had a issue with cooper or powder fowling which was pretty simple to remove following directions from most places. The big issue with 17 cal. is carbon fouling, that stuff just don't come out as easy as one would think. I tried all the carbon cleaners and got to the gun not going to get better if I don't get it out so what's it going to hurt if I go another route.
I think I went through 3 bronze bore brushes and finally got it out. I finished lapping a new barrel on another rifle so decided to lap my 17 cal. barrel as well. Took it out to range and figured its either junk or maybe I can bring some life back into it.

 

[TA17rem]

3 shot group, hole at top was misfire with primer, had to cock rifle again and shot. This is best this rifle has shot to date. This load was also shot with a thermal scope which is hard to get pinpoint accuracy with.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I got to thinking about the test I did with the SS rods and Iosso - maybe the reduction in diameter was just from smoothing out the surface and, if the test continued, the rate of reduction would go way down.
So, I just redid the test on a fresh SS rod. As before, I spun the 1/8" SS rod in a cloth with Iosso for 20 seconds; each time I used a fresh cloth and fresh Iosso.
After each pass of 20 seconds, I measured the diameter of the SS rod where the Iosso contacted it with a Mitutoyo mic. I took measurements at 6 random locations around the diameter.

Here's the results:

View attachment 1759990


I guess first is should we be comfortable that these results are meaningful? In reading others' comments about measuring below tenths, I wonder if the fifth decimal has any meaning? Are we comfortable with the measurements to the tenth's?

Assuming the tenth's are valid, it looks like the first pass smooths out/polishes the surface. After that, it looks like there is no further material removed.

What do you think?

To me this looks like the first pass with the Iosso polishes rough spots

ETA: When I pasted the table it looked fine. I just noticed that after saving the table got scrambled. Just replaced it with an image.

I think your findings pretty much define what polishing means...knocking down the high spots. Yes, it should slow dow prgressively as material gets removed from the high spots.

So, if I'm a bbl maker that's providing bbls to consumers that demand to use polishing compounds on their bores, should I send them out with a courser finish or one that is gorgeous from the start?
Or, should I just simply state, "no abrasive cleaners" on the paperwork?

This kinda gets us to the nutz and boltz of my post...some time back now.

 

[Steve Donlon]

It seems there is no way out with some barrels, calibers and powders we choose to use. Either way, your barrel is only going to last so long. If you have hard carbon, it's only coming out one way. Why can't they make a double base powder like 296 that does not leave hard carbon?

 

[ELR LVR]

3 shot group, hole at top was misfire with primer, had to cock rifle again and shot. This is best this rifle has shot to date. This load was also shot with a thermal scope which is hard to get pinpoint accuracy with.

Glad to see at least one other person understands lapping your own barrel can be done with great results
it's not complicated
but some think its a magic process somehow
---
there is a Right process, just not a magical art to it

 

[FrankG]

I think your findings pretty much define what polishing means...knocking down the high spots. Yes, it should slow dow prgressively as material gets removed from the high spots.

So, if I'm a bbl maker that's providing bbls to consumers that demand to use polishing compounds on their bores, should I send them out with a courser finish or one that is gorgeous from the start?
Or, should I just simply state, "no abrasive cleaners" on the paperwork?

This kinda gets us to the nutz and boltz of my post...some time back now.

In some cases... and depending on the type of abrasives... it's not just the abrasive by itself that is causing the issue.

When you use an abrasive in conjunction with a brush.... for sure damage will result.

I don't like Iosso. If I'm going to use an abrasive of some sort... It's JB Bore Compound (blue label not the red lable) or Remington 40x cleaner (think called bore cleaner now and years ago it was called Gold Medallion) but even with these.... I still don't use a brush.

Also repeated cleanings with some abrasives can cause the bore to be to smooth which also in turn can lead to a copper fouling situation and cause accuracy issues.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Alantra]

Thank god for this information…. So if I were to buy new cleaning rods and parts. What would I buy?

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Thank god for this information…. So if I were to buy new cleaning rods and parts. What would I buy?

Dewey rods, wipe out with accelerator and a good bronze brushes is basically all I use now.
Mix those 2 products together and a couple strokes with the brush down the barrel is all it takes for me

 

[Carl S]

Why would you want to fire lap a match grade barrel,am I missing something?i haven't seen fire lapping a match grade barrel do any good yet.

 

[Shooter13]

During a match I use wipe out or Bore Tech, after the match I use accelerator (applied with a patch) and wait 10 minutes then use a bronze brush with wipe out then a couple of patches of wipe out then dry patch it and I'm done. So far barrels look good.

 

[FrankG]

Why would you want to fire lap a match grade barrel,am I missing something?i haven't seen fire lapping a match grade barrel do any good yet.

^^^^ this right here. Why? If it’s a quality barrel with a good chamber job and fitting the only thing you break in is the throat area of the chamber. If the reamer cut nice… the throat will polish and break in fast.

You fire lap one of our barrels…. There is no warranty. You’re on your own. We have no control over what someone is doing like this. I’ve seen guys fire lap a barrel with only a few rounds and prematurely wear the throat. I’ve seen guys with just a few rounds fired wear the throat like .030”.

Tubb asked me one time to promote his fire lapping kits. I said only if Tubb is going to cover any warranty type replacements. That pretty much ended that conversation. Ask the maker of the fire lapping kit you buy if they will warranty the barrel? If not… you have your answer as to weather or not you should do it.

The only time and only time I would consider using a fire lapping kit is if it’s a factory barrel and the bore is really rough and is fouling horribly. What the hell you got nothing to lose. Or if the barrel is at the end of it’s life anyways and the bore is getting pretty rough and fouling is heavy… and you want to try and get thru the last match or two of the season… again then nothing to lose but don’t do it to a quality / new barrel. Why create a problem.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels