Cleaning primer pockets?

[markm87]

Regular cleaning. You gotta be kidding me. I wipe the necks off with a Scotchbrite pad. Roll between paper towels with brake cleaner to remove case lube.

I'm lazy and loading for two shooters... I tumble off the case lube; 1 hour in the vibratory.

 

[Ccrider]

I use the 21st century tool either by cordless or by hand. Out of 92 cases last night, I had slight brass scraping from two cases. The rest were just clean. I generally hold single digit es for five shot groups although I can’t say it is from just cleaning the pockets.

 

[jpjulian]

It has been too many years to remember since I last cleaned a primer pocket. I could never see any difference on target. Then again, I was just a knuckle dragging service rifle shooter. If I couldn't see improvement on target, whatever the process, it didn't get done. Waste of time.

 

[209jones]

I have cleaned most of the time, been times when loading at the range, that I tried out not cleaning for 5 rds or so to see what happened. Never tried uniforming, keep threatening to, but forget to look at those tools when buying something, it's a roundtoit. Going deep into the rabbit hole, maybe it is worth it, not sure I can shoot good enough, or with the right guns, to detect a difference.

 

[Laurie]

I haven't cleaned a primer pocket in probably 25 years. Nor have I uniformed one in 30 years.

Ah, lucky you! The trouble with so much case and bullet prep work is that once you start doing it, you're stuck with it for psychological reasons. If I failed to clean my primer pockets and my next match was poor, I'd just 'know' that the dirty pockets were the reasons for the dropped points. (I wonder how much time and money has been spent likewise on annealing cases before each and every loading, an even worse psychological addiction IMO?)

Ken Waters, the Handloader magazine tester and 'Pet Loads' writer once had a look at this. Gunsmith Seely Masker had built him a proper 6/222 Rem Mag chambered short-range BR rifle and he loaded up one batch of cases multiple times without pocket cleaning - and couldn't find any difference in his 'aggs' between those and others with meticulously cleaned examples.

(One of the great things about Waters' articles was his willingness to test things and still write the results up when he'd got it wrong. That Masker rifle coincided with the arrival of the PPC, and Waters admitted he was convinced that the latter was not inherently better than the previously dominant 6/222 Rem Mag. Nevertheless, he let Masker set the barrel back and rechamber for the 6PPC to 'prove' his case. He openly admitted he found himself on the wrong side of the argument here as the rifle in its PPC form shot consistently smaller groups.)

 

[Ccrider]

How much crud has to accumulate in the pocket before it causes the primer to protrude too far , affecting ignition, or reduce the size of the flash hole, affecting ignition?

While different, I shoot a smokeless muzzleloader and you have to clean the pockets and the flash hole or the flash hole will get smaller and smaller and it definitely affects ignition. As mentioned, this is a steel setup and the accumulation is more like hard carbon. Still, it lets you know that accumulation affects ignition.

If you seat by feel, and don’t clean the pocket, it probably does not matter as much whether you clean the pockets, assuming you have seated enough primers by reel to be consistent.

It’s about like annealing, if you keep your cases I’m the same rotation, thus keeping neck hardening consistent, you may have to change bushings but annealing won’t matter. If you don’t, sooner or later you will have enough variance in neck hardening to affect neck tension which you will see on your targets.

If you, or your gun can’t shoot the difference, cleaning pockets or annealing don’t matter.

 

[DaveTooley]

I have never seen a flash hole change size in 45 years of shooting. We run decapping pins through them and on a PPC that's a close fit between the pin and the flash hole. When we used Wilson neck dies I never had one hang up on the decapping pin. Even in large magnums I've never seen any build up that affected anything. I do seat by feel. Touch then crush. The hand priming tool stops in the same location each time.
Here's another thing I don't do. Anneal. I have 16 cases for my PPC. I shot the Shamrock and Super Shoot as well as a lot of practice with that set. I know that's approaching at least 600 rounds. That works out to 37 firings on each case that I FL size each time. Time to get a new barrel on order.
It's about consistency and your mental state.
YMMV

 

[Ccrider]

I have never seen a flash hole change size in 45 years of shooting. We run decapping pins through them and on a PPC that's a close fit between the pin and the flash hole. When we used Wilson neck dies I never had one hang up on the decapping pin. Even in large magnums I've never seen any build up that affected anything. I do seat by feel. Touch then crush. The hand priming tool stops in the same location each time.
Here's another thing I don't do. Anneal. I have 16 cases for my PPC. I shot the Shamrock and Super Shoot as well as a lot of practice with that set. I know that's approaching at least 600 rounds. That works out to 37 firings on each case that I FL size each time. Time to get a new barrel on order.
It's about consistency and your mental state.
YMMV

How many thousands of rounds have you, and many of the experienced shooters on this site seated? Probably more in a year, than many of us have seated in our lifetime. I have no doubt that you can seat by feel as consistent as I can using the fanciest seating tool. Removing the buildup helps me to be consistent and based on what I have read, inconsistent primer seating depth shows up on the target. I believe this to be true.

I would be willing to bet, based on your success, that you meticulously keep your brass in the same rotation and can account for every shot. It is probably second nature for you. It is a difficult task for me, probably because I don’t start off with enough cases.

Do you think that build up in the primer pocket can affect ignition?

 

[DaveTooley]

How many thousands of rounds have you, and many of the experienced shooters on this site seated? Probably more in a year, than many of us have seated in our lifetime. I have no doubt that you can seat by feel as consistent as I can using the fanciest seating tool. Removing the buildup helps me to be consistent and based on what I have read, inconsistent primer seating depth shows up on the target. I believe this to be true.

I would be willing to bet, based on your success, that you meticulously keep your brass in the same rotation and can account for every shot. It is probably second nature for you. It is a difficult task for me, probably because I don’t start off with enough cases.

Do you think that build up in the primer pocket can affect ignition?

I agree that inconsistent and/or improper depth can probably have an affect on accuracy. Possibly miniature hang fires. Build up no. As easily as the residue breaks up the primer is accomplishing the same thing. The question is does the dust left in the pocket cause a problem. I've never seen it. If it does it gets lost in the noise of more important matters. I am not the shooter I used to be. Time has taken it's toll but I still know when my rifle is or isn't shooting well.
This is for those that seat primers to a specific depth. If we don't seat primers to the bottom of the pocket and press all the legs of the anvil against the bottom of the primer pocket, flush with the cup, how do we know the center of the anvil, in relation to the primer compound, has the same sensitivity shot after shot. We don't and most of the time it doesn't matter but how many times do people ask about failure to fire problems and one of the responses is always how are you seating your primers. I shot Wolf LR primers in 308's and thought I was seating them to the bottom but I was getting miniature hang fires. I went back and reseated the primers deeper and the hang fires stopped.
But in the end the primer is a crude explosive device fired through a metering orifice. And that explosive device has some power. Want to see my scare?

 

[dogdude]

I'm a Crocogater fan with a hand drill, takes 2 seconds and only cost's 10 bucks.

 

[M-61]

I was getting miniature hang fires.

Don’t know what you mean by ‘miniature’.
FTF is one thing but a hang fire is frightening.
I assume the muzzle was pointed down range when this occurred.

 

[DaveTooley]

Don’t know what you mean by ‘miniature’.
FTF is one thing but a hang fire is frightening.
I assume the muzzle was pointed down range when this occurred.

Some you know about and some you don't. I was focused on the shot and observers had to tell me there was a click bang.

 

[wkdickinson]

I have used a Sinclair Primer Pocket Uniformer for years in a drill press. I just bumps the cases into the spinning tool. It works great!

 

[ebb]

I have a hard enough time keeping primer pockets tight without wallowing them out with a uniformer that isn't properly aligned with the pocket. And nobody I know is steady or accurate enough to get them lined up perfect every time. Maybe if Jackie made a fixture to hold the case in the headstock of his lathe and the uniformer in the tailstock . but why? Too many real bench rest shooters have tried clean ones against dirty ones and found no difference on the target.