bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Don’t tell people that Dave!…. I want every competitor to use pins and or a ultrasonic cleaner!… ultra squeaky clean brass holds bullets tight!….I like that
Wayne
Cleaning fired cases
- Thread starter Timothy O
- Start date
Wayne
It’s not that there is not any functional gain from tumbling with SS pins, it’s that you are definitely getting a functional degradation by removing the carbon from the inside of the necks. Find me one champion BR, F-Class Open, F-TR or Palma shooter that tumbles their brass in SS pins. After you cannot, ask yourself if you should be doing it??? Now, if all you care about is working with pristine clean brass, and accuracy isn’t tops on your list, then by all means, proceed.
Dave
Lol. Agree. I need to start posting fake data touting the benefits of SS pin tumbling, mandrels and drilling primer holes to increase diameter…maybe I’d turn more 2nd place finishes into 1st’s.
Why not just tumble dry in lizard bedding. You can even put 2-3 drops of liquid turtle wax in and the outside of the brass will look damn near new. I use a vibratory bowl with lizard bedding (crushed walnuts) and will occasionally use 2 drops of turtle wax when the outside of the brass is really dirty. Give it a shot without the liquid and see how it simplifies the process and no waiting overnight.
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If it works for you and gives you the performance you are looking for, then I say keep doing your thing. But if you truly want better accuracy, do a shoot off of 50 pcs of pristine cleaned brass against 50 pcs of brass where you don’t even clean them at all. I already know the results but do it yourself and you’ll understand.
That's very interesting. I will definitely give this a more structured try. Now that you mention it, I know I've done this in haste when in a pinch and just neck sized some 6.5cm dirty brass and loaded it.... with good results.
I don't shoot competitively at all for several reasons, but I/we shoot long range every weekend. Finding out what to do and what not to do in handloading to get good accuracy while maintaining sanity is a balance.
How does this play with annealing? I generally aneal every time due to necks work hardening unevenly.
I also use a rotary tumbler, dawn & lemi shine. Interesting to read you do not use pins. Definitely more time consuming w pins-I'm going to try that next cleaning.
Yep
But.. they like clean brass and they shoot extremely well. There is no right or wrong just different ways around the barn so who am I to question success of others, myself.. I’m a slob.
coldboreshot
Silver $$ Contributor
Lets step back and examine this...to the disinformation crowd, you are like Democratic politicians... a rice paper sushi roll...we can plainly see right thru to your BS. As far as carbon in the necks crowd, I'm sure at one point you had to have purchased virgin brass. Most alarmists will say, "oh, it can only be initially used to fireform!!!!"
I have seen quite a few matches won and some records set with virgin brass so carbon in the neck is not the holy grail. And Dusty made a point regarding the SS pins "shot peened necks"crowd. I've done my own testing with dry clean necks and carbon necks. "No Diference". You know what makes the difference???? NECK TENSION. Those of you who have hard data that states different, please, put it out there. I'm relying on what I have tested with numerous calibers. Consider factory match ammo like Lapua, Fed GM, etc... No carbon in those necks, and I've witnessed accurate performance by those as well. At this stage of the reloading process, it only matters what you feel comfortable doing. Me personally, I use wet pin tumbling only because "I" feel confident that my brass is the cleanest when it comes to the sizing process. Doesn't make right or wrong, better or worse. It's just what I feel satisified doing.
I have seen quite a few matches won and some records set with virgin brass so carbon in the neck is not the holy grail. And Dusty made a point regarding the SS pins "shot peened necks"crowd. I've done my own testing with dry clean necks and carbon necks. "No Diference". You know what makes the difference???? NECK TENSION. Those of you who have hard data that states different, please, put it out there. I'm relying on what I have tested with numerous calibers. Consider factory match ammo like Lapua, Fed GM, etc... No carbon in those necks, and I've witnessed accurate performance by those as well. At this stage of the reloading process, it only matters what you feel comfortable doing. Me personally, I use wet pin tumbling only because "I" feel confident that my brass is the cleanest when it comes to the sizing process. Doesn't make right or wrong, better or worse. It's just what I feel satisified doing.
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
I wash brass(no pins) that has been on the ground. Wipe clean my bolt gun brass, both after universal deprime.
I have noticed that in the precision loading realm there are times when info is dogmatically echoed.
There was a flash hole subject that came up where a handful of members with zero first hand experience were here to post that a process was "wrong"... and the one guy who'd actually tested the matter posted to the contrary.
I'd still like to try the dirty neck test.
I also anneal after every firing. I simply run a slightly oversized nylon brush once in and out prior to annealing and then I never touch the inside of the neck again with anything other than the next bullet. Fantastic accuracy.
I pretty much agree with all that's said here. I've experimented with just about everything to see what the difference might be and conclude that it depends, it depends . . . it depends. For example, I tried just loading up some virgin Lapua brass right out of a fresh box (.308's); it didn't work out so well. The seating required a lot of pressure and putting that seating stem ring impression on the ogive; got inconsistent seating depths and groups were not has tight as usual. And, some of the virgin cases were slightly out of round/dented, which were not used until running an mandrel through them. Even after running a mandrel through the virgin brass (expecting things to improve), still had the same seating problem and results. Then I tried something a little different by using my Lee Collet Die on the Lapua virgin brass and the seating issue went away. To this day, am not sure exactly why that is, but the results on paper were good, like I normally get when reloading (.3 - .5" groups @ 100 yds). So, though I keep my expectations low on virgin brass, I do find I get good enough results with virgin brass to start any load development I have planned. When cases are fire formed, I do find a get better better results even when cases are not lubed in any way for seating with a consistent neck tension. Since I anneal after every firing, I do like to do something about the rough oxidation coating left on the inside of the neck to reduce the amount of force needed with seating. To do that, I simply do a short dry tumble with rice after sizing which takes care of the oxidation coating just right.
The only time I wet tumble, is if the brass gets dirty. But since my shooting typically is off a bench and the cases go from breach into my hand to the ammo box and never touches the ground, there's no really need for wet tumbling. Though I don't like the idea of sizing my cases after annealing without removing that oxidation of the necks so not to put any more wear on the die than needs be or get any damage from that oxidation layer, which is a pretty rough coating. Very often now, after annealing I'll simply take some steel wool and simply give each case a couple twists to clean the oxidation off and then size them, where this is the only cleaning I do other than cleaning the primer pockets with a uniforming tool (the pic below is what the cases look like afterwards). This latter process takes a lot less time than wet tumbling and I find that the results on paper is just as good.
Hmmm??? You've peaked my curiosity, now I'll have to give that a try.
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Dave, I won’t speak for other guys process beyond what I posted.
Again , I’m a slob that rarely cleans brass nor do I anneal but that’s me and my routine is for the most part performance based and pretty basic.
I think a fella or lady can tune around most any reloading process and be successful if they put in the work necessary to achieve their goals.
Jim
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