Clean cases compared uncleaned

[Kcsoup]

I developed a load that is working with not cleaning the inside the case, my question is is when preparing brass exactly the same but I tumbled some in a media cleaner to try, the same load shot like crap. Can anyone explain why? Thanks in advance.

 

[chkunz]

Look someplace else.

 

[Kcsoup]

Why look somewhere else, this is a 6br tread. I forgot to mention I'm shooting 6br. If I'm at the wrong place forgive me, I'm new to this.

 

[Lone Hunter]

Why look somewhere else, this is a 6br tread. I forgot to mention I'm shooting 6br. If I'm at the wrong place forgive me, I'm new to this.

I think,but can't speak for him,that he is trying,not too tactfully,to tell you the problem is somewhere else and it is not a clean vs unclean case thing. JMO..

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

I developed a load that is working with not cleaning the inside the case, my question is is when preparing brass exactly the same but I tumbled some in a media cleaner to try, the same load shot like crap. Can anyone explain why? Thanks in advance.

Some group size numbers (not just "working" and "crap") would be useful.

Clean necks will not provide as consistent a bullet release as fired cases with carbon in the neck. That's why benchrest shooters don't tumble brass. You can see the difference on the target between clean and carboned necks with a benchrest rifle, but I wouldn't describe the clean-neck groups as "crap" -- just a little bigger.

 

[chkunz]

My meaning was to recommend that you look for a different cause for the results you are seeking. I did not mean that this forum is not the place for you to look for opinions on the results you are getting. You are at the right place and some may agree that you need to look for a different cause for the results you are getting and some may have a very different opinion and offer more helpful advice. Either way you did not provide enough detail for a good analysis, so I would recommend more detail. Best wishes, Clyde.

 

[Kcsoup]

I think,but can't speak for him,that he is trying,not too tactfully,to tell you the problem is somewhere else and it is not a clean vs unclean case thing. JMO..

Thanks, when reading post I'll think them through. LOL. I tested and retested and get the same results, a .363 4 shot group at 200 yards, repeat .409. Clean the inside not so good. That's ok I'll just shoot what I know works, sometimes things make me go hum!

 

[Kcsoup]

Some group size numbers (not just "working" and "crap") would be useful.

Clean necks will not provide as consistent a bullet release as fired cases with carbon in the neck. That's why benchrest shooters don't tumble brass. You can see the difference on the target between clean and carboned necks with a benchrest rifle, but I wouldn't describe the clean-neck groups as "crap" -- just a little bigger.

You're right, the clean necks don't shoot like crap, just not what I expected. I noticed when seating the clean necks seam tighter, that's probably what's making the difference. Thanks to all.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

You're right, the clean necks don't shoot like crap, just not what I expected. I noticed when seating the clean necks seam tighter, that probably what is making the difference. Thanks to all.

Yes, the carbon film on the inside of a fired neck is an excellent lubricant. Clean brass is sticky.

My fired case prep is:

Wipe the outside of the case neck with Nevr Dull
Put a thin film of Imperial Sizing Die Wax on the outside of the case (I use my fingers)
Size/deprime
Wipe case outside with a soft cloth
Run a worn nylon brush through the neck
Clean the primer pocket (Sinclair carbide tool)
Trim to length if necessary
Lightly chamfer the case neck inside and out

Works like a charm for precision shooting.

 

[Lone Hunter]

I clean with SS pins and when I seat the bullet I dip the bullet in Imperial Dry Neck Lube. There is a difference in seating between a neck that has been cleaned and one that has not. You can tell the difference big time. I like clean cases and like to look for defects. I'm not that great a shot but generally hit what I shoot at. The dry neck lube makes seating easier.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

The world's most accurate rifles shoot cases that have never seen the inside of a tumbler since they were new. Clean necks (on the inside) produce less accurate ammunition. The target doesn't care how shiny your cases are, but it does care how uniform the bullet release is. I prefer smaller groups to shinier cases, but it's a free country!

 

[Kcsoup]

The world's most accurate rifles shoot cases that have never seen the inside of a tumbler since they were new. Clean necks (on the inside) produce less accurate ammunition. The target doesn't care how shiny your cases are, but it does care how uniform the bullet release is. I prefer smaller groups to shinier cases, but it's a free country!

Thanks Toby, I agree no more shiny inside of the cases for me.

 

[Richard Coody]

used to use an ultrasonic. before that a tumbler. i still use a tumbler for some rounds. i have learned just how important that carbon in the neck is.

for my benchrest cases i usually deprime with a harvey depriming tool and wipe the case clean with a rag moistened with ballistol. i usually do this at the range while i am waiting for my barrel to cool or others are posting targets. put the cleaned deprimed cases in a ziplock in my range box. the sooner you clean them the easier the carbon wipes off.

when i get home those cases are ready to resize. ballistol is a good sizing lube for small cases like the 6BR.

size them i have had great results with a simi custom harrel die. experimenting with a k&m sizing mandrel kit

wipe the lube off with a clean rag, brush out the necks lightly, clean the primer pocket, check trim length trim if needed, light chamfer, during all this case inspection is a given

prime i use the sinclair tool consistent priming is very important

charge i use Adam's autotrickler system

seat bullets i use wilson dies with a 21st century hydro press

this is my first load testing target with my savage 6br

after much work on seating depth, load tuning, neck tension and lots of other things i have learned on this site this is the result

 

[Kcsoup]

My current process is,
Deprime
Anneal
Size using bushing die, .267 using Imperial sizing wax.
Run them through expander mandrel for consistency.
Clean pockets with Sinclair carbide unifier
Tumble in corn cob media for 1.5 hours
Trim if needed, chamfer with Sinclair VLD tool
Inspect cases
Seat bullets using Wilson Ultra seating tool.
This seems to be working for me.
I'm getting good groups at 200 yards,

 

[Jet]

If you don't do so already, get a notebook for each rifle you shoot and start taking good notes. All items in your load development prep need to be tested on the target to see what works and what doesn't. How you clean brass is one of the many variables that should be tested and once you have a process that is proven on the target be consistent with it and apply it the same when developing loads.

Good shooting

Rich

 

[Barlow]

I used a bent (90 degrees)wire, I sharpened on the end, took a few cases that had been fired multiple times that were never cleaned inside. I spun them with a drill and case holder while running the wire in and out, around and around to loosen up what ever crud was inside the case. Tapped the cases on the counter top and found 1 millionth (guess) of an once of dust. Try it, ymmv. Barlow

 

[jds holler]

If forty years ago, most of us who reloaded would have seen all the hoopala that is made about case cleaning/tumbling these days -- we would have thought WTF??

Of all the things that I think of doing to enhance my accuracy, tumbling cases isn't one of them. jd

 

[jr600yd]

I don't mean to hijack the thread but I have a question.
I can see where clean cases (inside) may disrupt even neck tension and bullet release. I see where this will show up on target, especially in the Benchrest game.

My question is "How much" ? I shoot F class and was wondering what the difffence on paper would be at let's say 600 or 1K?

 

[chkunz]

I don't mean to hijack the thread but I have a question.
I can see where clean cases (inside) may disrupt even neck tension and bullet release. I see where this will show up on target, especially in the Benchrest game.

My question is "How much" ? I shoot F class and was wondering what the difffence on paper would be at let's say 600 or 1K?

It would take a significant effort but it would be interesting to see test results that would show if there is any difference in accuracy between clean necks and uncleaned necks. We see lots of opinions on this but I have not seen where anyone has done the testing.

 

[hmcsr]

I developed a load that is working with not cleaning the inside the case, my question is is when preparing brass exactly the same but I tumbled some in a media cleaner to try, the same load shot like crap. Can anyone explain why? Thanks in advance.

Are you ensuring the primer flash hole is clear of tumbling media?