Chronographs part deux

[BP1]

I tested my new Athlon chrono this evening against my original Lab radar and the athlon was consistently 10-15fps faster..I’m going to test it against my buddies Garmin next week..if there’s a firmware fix for this I guess I’ll need to contact the manufacturer…happy shooting!

 

[Varminterror]

I tested my new Athlon chrono this evening against my original Lab radar and the athlon was consistently 10-15fps faster..I’m going to test it against my buddies Garmin next week..if there’s a firmware fix for this I guess I’ll need to contact the manufacturer…happy shooting!

Firmware updates are all installed via Bluetooth and facilitated by connecting to the mobile app.

 

[powderbrake]

Varminterror:
Thanks for the response. Before I make any choices I will download the manuals and read them.
I like the iphone app for the Labradar, and I assume it is the same for the Labradar LX, which would make it perfect for me.

 

[ptf18]

Got the Garmin. Nice...BUT...... It does NOT have enough...what Garmin calls Data Screens to show ALL of the following which earlier era chronographs displayed:
1) Average Velocity
2) Highest velocity
3) Lowest Velocity
4) Extreme Spread
5) Standard Deviation
6) Average Deviation
In the Garmin settings you can pick 3 of the following to display in the 3 (only) Data Screens that show.
1)Average Velocity
2) Minimum Velocity
3)Maximum Velocity
4)Deviation From Average
5)Kinetic Energy
6)Power Factor

All in all a easy unit to setup and use

 

[charlie b]

That's why my question about connectivity. I never look up the data on the chrono. I download it to the PC and put it in a spreadsheet to analyze.

I can also deconflict strings of data. For example, if I am recording a ladder I just download all of it to the spreadsheet, then reconfigure to show the vel data for each load and/or seat depth.

And, if I get lazy and don't start a new string for a different rifle I can separate the data in the spreadsheet or even make different spreadsheets for different guns, loads, temperatures, etc.

Once in the spreadsheet you can calculate any statistics you want, make graphs, etc. GRT has a function to import the csv file into the load information for a cartridge/load.

One time I even made a graph for ALL of the shots from a specific load over the course of a year. Kinda interesting to look at that kind of thing.

 

[BP1]

Well I went out and setup the athlon and Garmin and shot a 22 round strings at 500meters yesterday and the Athlon registered 4 shots about 8fps faster than the Garmin in that string. I set the Athlon directly under my barrel and about 4-5” back from the muzzle and the Garmin off to the right side and the rest of the rounds were pretty much the same..so which one was wrong in those other 4 shots..who knows.

 

[Turkeytider]

Well I went out and setup the athlon and Garmin and shot a 22 round strings at 500meters yesterday and the Athlon registered 4 shots about 8fps faster than the Garmin in that string. I set the Athlon directly under my barrel and about 4-5” back from the muzzle and the Garmin off to the right side and the rest of the rounds were pretty much the same..so which one was wrong in those other 4 shots..who knows.

And how important is 8 fps either way in the grand scheme of things ?

 

[Liven The Dream]

Athlon a-ok. Deals for Vets First Responders ?

 

[BP1]

And how important is 8 fps either way in the grand scheme of things ?

Well certain barrel, bullet,powder combos have nodes where they shoot better than others so it’s kinda important in the grand scheme of things..to me anyways it may very for others.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Well I went out and setup the athlon and Garmin and shot a 22 round strings at 500meters yesterday and the Athlon registered 4 shots about 8fps faster than the Garmin in that string. I set the Athlon directly under my barrel and about 4-5” back from the muzzle and the Garmin off to the right side and the rest of the rounds were pretty much the same..so which one was wrong in those other 4 shots..who knows.

You nailed it.
We did a test years ago with older equipment same out come ?
In this case the Guy with the unit that cost more, said " see I have the better one"
Who and how do you know?

 

[Canuckienns]

I love my Athalon. My Labrador served me well .

 

[Varminterror]

Got the Garmin. Nice...BUT...... It does NOT have enough...what Garmin calls Data Screens to show ALL of the following which earlier era chronographs displayed:
1) Average Velocity
2) Highest velocity
3) Lowest Velocity
4) Extreme Spread
5) Standard Deviation
6) Average Deviation
In the Garmin settings you can pick 3 of the following to display in the 3 (only) Data Screens that show.
1)Average Velocity
2) Minimum Velocity
3)Maximum Velocity
4)Deviation From Average
5)Kinetic Energy
6)Power Factor

All in all a easy unit to setup and use

The Garmin does only concurrently display 4 data points - the last shot velocity plus 3 sample set metrics - but you missed that it does display Standard Deviation as well as Extreme Spread among the available metrics - this is how I keep mine set up:

 

[ptf18]

The Garmin does only concurrently display 4 data points - the last shot velocity plus 3 sample set metrics - but you missed that it does display Standard Deviation as well as Extreme Spread among the available metrics - this is how I keep mine set up:

View attachment 1695637

Yes Sir..... After I "dug around" the settings I found the settings your showing. They are the ones that I want to show and will set mine as you have yours. Thank you

 

[PhilC]

Athlon a-ok. Deals for Vets First Responders ?

Yes, visit Expertvoice.com. Mine will be here tomorrow, $332 w/tax and shipping.

 

[ptf18]

Fellows... OT but.... Anyone find a little carrying case for these expensive "tools" we have? Maybe a small pistol case?

 

[PhilC]

Athlon includes a zippered side carrying case.

 

[Bob3700]

Who has the best price on the Garmins?

 

[Varminterror]

Fellows... OT but.... Anyone find a little carrying case for these expensive "tools" we have? Maybe a small pistol case?

I really like the Seahorse/Evergreen cases with pluck ‘n pull foam. The #56 fits the Garmin and Athlon units, while the 1” deeper #57 fits the LabRadar LX. These fit the chronographs, their tripods, an ARCA or Picatinny gun mount arm, a battery pack, and their charging cords, and offer waterproofing as well as impact protection. These are $30 with the foam on Amazon. Scheels sells a rebranded version with topo-map camo black shell with laser cut foam inside (only holds unit, tripod, and cord, no gun mount slot) for $40.

I keep the charging cords curled under the tripods, and I have a “credit card” shaped/sized portable battery pack laying underneath the right side foam.

# 57 with LabRadar LX at our left, #56 with Garmin at middle and #56 with Athlon at our right.



The Athlons do include a rigid softshell case, which is quite nice, but it doesn’t have room for the gun mount. Many folks may consider that a $30 advantage for the Athlon.

 

[hmcsr]

Fellows... OT but.... Anyone find a little carrying case for these expensive "tools" we have? Maybe a small pistol case?

Using for my Garmin. From Amazon.
Blue Shockproof Charger Carrying Case - GLCON Small Hard Travel EVA Case for WD Seagate Toshiba Hard Drive, Power Bank, Electronic Accessories, Cord, Cable - High Protection Portable Storage Bag

 

[Varminterror]

Well I went out and setup the athlon and Garmin and shot a 22 round strings at 500meters yesterday and the Athlon registered 4 shots about 8fps faster than the Garmin in that string. I set the Athlon directly under my barrel and about 4-5” back from the muzzle and the Garmin off to the right side and the rest of the rounds were pretty much the same..so which one was wrong in those other 4 shots..who knows.

Unfortunately, in my testing of these radar units, I would bet heavily that the Athlon is more “wrong” than the Garmin. Quite frequently in all of my side by side tests, I see 4 radars - 2 Garmin’s and 2 LabRadars - reading very tightly together, while the 2 Athlons often read higher OR lower on any given day. Equally, the volatility in the dataset tends to be higher for the Athlons.

In my testing, in an indirect measure of POTENTIAL accuracy to truth, I found that the Garmin is the only brand which 2 units measure within 0.2% of one another. In principle, if the units are stated to be within +/-0.1% of “truth,” then that would limit 2 units to never be more than 0.2% apart from one another. If the units WERE more than 0.2% apart, we know one or both cannot be within 0.1% of true value. Considering the opportunity, of course, that BOTH Garmins and BOTH LabRadars are wrong, but when I fire the same ammo again, the Athlons may switch from a slow offset to a high offset, and change in value. The Athlons typically have been .5-.8% spread from one another, so if we assumed "truth" was in the middle of the two, we'd have +/-0.3-0.4% accuracy, not the specified +/-0.1%.

Here are a couple of examples of the increased volatility I have observed (taller difference between peaks and valleys), as well as the velocity offset. Note, the Garmins and LabRadars tightly agree on velocity for each shot, with the Athlons demonstrating an offset.

In this plot, we can see the relative volatility of the green Garmin trends, tight squiggles bouncing slightly inside the edges of the orange LabRadar trends, and then notice the purple Athlon trends are more spiky than either of the other brands. The offset here is about 5fps FASTER velocity displayed for the Athlons than the LabRadars or Garmins.


Again, FASTER velocity readings from the Athlons over the Garmins by 8-9fps, with the LabRadar's ~2fps slower (very close if not within the -0.1% tolerance on most shots), and obviously a much more volatile, more spiky trend.


Alternatively, sometimes the Athlons give up their offset and within the expected tolerance - here only slipping ~1-2fps slower than the other 2 brands, very close or within the -0.1% tolerance expected. In this test, or at least this zoomed in portion of the center of the 100 rounds, we have the Athlons relatively reliably on a SLOWER offset from the other 2 brands, but only by 1-2fps for most shots, with the max spread between fastest and slowest readings for a given shot only being spread by 5-6fps. But comparatively with the other tests, in each instance, the LabRadars and Garmins bounce together within the 1-3fps we'd expect a +/-0.1% tolerance to allow, but the Athlons are sometimes slower by a handful of fps or faster by a couple handfuls.



Here are the examples of data comparisons between 2 units of each brand:

This is a 1085fps average velocity Rimfire test, such +/-0.1% would reflect a 2.2fps maximum potential spread between 2 units to satisfy that specification. Athlon and LabRadar were twice that standard, such we know at least ONE of them cannot be displaying within the specified +/-1.1fps tolerance for each shot.


Another 100rnd rimfire test, this time with a 1200fps average velocity load, which would correspond to a maximum spread of 2.4fps before knowing at least ONE of the units cannot be reading within the specified +/-0.1%. In this test, again, the Garmins were the only brand which fell within the target tolerance to let us believe they COULD be displaying the correct velocity, within their stated tolerance. The LabRadar was about 50% greater than that tolerance, and the Athlons were 2.5x greater than that tolerance.


This is a 2805fps 6 Dasher load, which puts the +/-0.1% tolerance at 5.6fps maximum allowable spread between 2 units. Again, the Garmin satisfied that potential tolerance between the 2 units, while the LabRadar was ~3x wider, and the Athlons were ~4x wider.


Saying all of that - the Athlons are STILL more accurate than the +/-0.5% to +/-1.0% standard of the optical chronographs we all used for so many years, so they are still an improvement over optical chronographs, and for their reduced price compared to the Garmin, many users will still find great utility for the Athlons.