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chronograph

I wouldn't buy a chronograph. I let the target tell me what it wants. The only time I use one is to get velocity for drops. Matt

I think that is a fine idea however I like to use it for load development. I know that there is an optimum load for each bullet for each round. When I see my ES open up I know that even if the speeds are faster having a high ES is a BAD THING in the ELR game so keep an eye on the numbers.

MagnetoSpeed is great. Ryan had helped me this last month-GREAT Customer Service.
 
At Manatee, in South Florida, Lab Radar rules.

In Manatee, in South Florida, Lab Radar is the most cussed-out product.

Quite often I see them on benches with nothing on the screen. Owners play and play, wasting tune time, trying to get them to work properly. Ask and the answer ranges from the muzzle brake, too close to the muzzle, too far, not close enough, slanted wrong etc. Just a guess but a version of this failure seems to be with near if not 1/2 of the users.

Then I hear about updates, stands, extra batteries, the sun, temperature, other shooters etc.

When it works and it does often for many, I ask why they have it there all the time. The answer is usually a variation of, "so I know". Often I note that they are not the best grouping shooters on the range. Sometimes think it's a form of status symbol and there's lots of that with benchrest shooters.

I use my chronograph to check on loads I develop. Then put it away. To me they are not a tool for development as they tend to detract from the target results. So many are enamored with single-digit ES, small SD and ignore how awful their groups tend to be in spite of what the electronics show.

I say get what you like. It's your money. Then develop your loads with the target results as your guide. Finally, check to see just how fast it shoots as a reference point for ballistic performance, powder lot, temperature, and component changes.
 
I think that is a fine idea however I like to use it for load development. I know that there is an optimum load for each bullet for each round. When I see my ES open up I know that even if the speeds are faster having a high ES is a BAD THING in the ELR game so keep an eye on the numbers.

MagnetoSpeed is great. Ryan had helped me this last month-GREAT Customer Service.
Many times the lowest ES and smallest 100 yard groups are not the best. I am talking about at 1000 yards and for BR. In fact, most times, it isn't near the best. I have tested and shot over 30,000 rounds at 1000 yards. I used to use the chronograph when I started but soon learned the target tells the story. Matt
 
Contrary to other comments - I cannot imagine not having a chrono of some type. High SD's at 100 will always translate to vertical at distance, though low SD's wont' show how good a load is unless conditions allow - something seldom seen in real-world distance shooting while doing load development. Oh yeah - it will be dead calm during a match maybe - but not for weeks on end when you are doing load development. I like both - but each have drawbacks - such as sights, muzzle brakes, tuners, etc. in the way for the Magnetospeed - as well as difficulty picking up .17 and .20 bullets sometimes. Then there are all the problems with the Labradar as noted by others. I'm getting ready to order another "old school" chrono with the sky screens to replace one I managed to shoot (after missing for 20 years). There is even a place for them
 
You absolutely need a chronograph if you plan on doing any sort of precision handloading... doing so without one is like "loading in the dark"..

I used my grandfather's Oehler for years, which quit on my last Christmas... Since then, I bought a Shooting Chrony Alpha Master series unit, and used it 4 times, first time, it clocked 75% of my shots... every time after that, when I would turn it on, I would immediately get an error message on the display - "Err 2" or sometimes "Err 9".. which indicate problems with the photosensors, but believe you me, I have tried it in every conceivable lighting imaginable... it just simply malfunctioned, permanently.

Since then, I got a Millenium, and it works wonderfully. I've also used Pro Chrono Digital as well, and recommend them both.
 
You absolutely need a chronograph if you plan on doing any sort of precision handloading... doing so without one is like "loading in the dark"..


I guess everyone has their own load development technique. But thats a pretty flat out wrong statement. I always find it comical when people post tight es chronograph pictures. Then when I ask wheres the target, the excuses start coming out. While I am not criticizing your method of development, the paper doesnt care how fast the bullet went through it, nor the difference between the last shots speed.
 
Contrary to other comments - I cannot imagine not having a chrono of some type. High SD's at 100 will always translate to vertical at distance, ...snip.....

Not always true. You are disregarding barrel vibration. I have loads that shoot very good waterlines at 600 and 1000yds. One load in one gun can shoot cleans at 600yds with 60% or better X count. That same load has cleaned at 1000yds with 50% X count. It has a verified ES of over 30fps in 60 rounds recorded during one match. I don't recall the sd. If it is tuned for a particular distance it can shoot very small regardless of the ES/SD (within reason). If I had to have a load/gun that shot under .5 minutes at all ranges from 100-1200yds I would agree with your point. However, for fixed distances the loads I shot that had the lowest ES/SD were rarely acceptable for consistent sub .5 minute precision.
 
Contrary to other comments - I cannot imagine not having a chrono of some type. High SD's at 100 will always translate to vertical at distance, though low SD's wont' show how good a load is unless conditions allow - something seldom seen in real-world distance shooting while doing load development. Oh yeah - it will be dead calm during a match maybe - but not for weeks on end when you are doing load development. I like both - but each have drawbacks - such as sights, muzzle brakes, tuners, etc. in the way for the Magnetospeed - as well as difficulty picking up .17 and .20 bullets sometimes. Then there are all the problems with the Labradar as noted by others. I'm getting ready to order another "old school" chrono with the sky screens to replace one I managed to shoot (after missing for 20 years). There is even a place for them
This is absolutely not true. I have had guns that shot 1 or 2 ES and bugholes at 100 and 13 inches plus vertical at 1000 yards. The same guns with other loads that shot 20 to 25 ES would shoot 10 shot 3 to 5 inch groups at 1000 yards. I have shot over 30,000 rounds at 1000 yards, all on paper. This is not speculation but actual facts. Those loads have won won a lot of aggregates and set 7 world records. Matt
 
Contrary to other comments - I cannot imagine not having a chrono of some type. High SD's at 100 will always translate to vertical at distance, though low SD's wont' show how good a load is unless conditions allow - something seldom seen in real-world distance shooting while doing load development. Oh yeah - it will be dead calm during a match maybe - but not for weeks on end when you are doing load development. I like both - but each have drawbacks - such as sights, muzzle brakes, tuners, etc. in the way for the Magnetospeed - as well as difficulty picking up .17 and .20 bullets sometimes. Then there are all the problems with the Labradar as noted by others. I'm getting ready to order another "old school" chrono with the sky screens to replace one I managed to shoot (after missing for 20 years). There is even a place for them
Read my last post. Matt
 
It was improper wording on my part in saying "always" in respect to higher ES showing vertical at distance. Sure - there will be other variables that will affect a "low ES load" to group poorly - just as a "high ES load" might outperform a "lower ES load", possibly to the point where someone has a gun they say shoots better with higher ES. Still, is it not right to casually discount the effect of ES. My opinion is that chronographs are indispensable tools to minimize load development and if, for nothing else - knowing what kind of velocity you are running. Run your load into a program - change the S.D's by 30 and see what your difference is at 1,000. (I wasn't meaning 75 yards) Comparing what one gun does with one load versus another at distance are not within the context of comparing one gun and one load.

My point is that it takes a chronograph to quickly isolate loads that could have the best promise for long range. Grouping at 100 yards is one thing. The Standard Deviation of your velocity is quite another - as an increase WILL promote exponential vertical at distance, FAR MORE OFTEN THAN NOT - and that is ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
 
Barlow,
I also have the Pro Chrono but I bought a blue tooth made for it and it talks to you, no need to even get off the rifle as I use it to shoot F- Class for practice and tunning. I had the mag3 and the labradar, got rid of them both and am back to my pro crony and couldnt be happier. If interested Amazon has the blue tooth unit for around 54.00 and takes all but 2 mins to hook it up and your ready to go.
No POA impact and no lost of reception to the app.
Rob
 
Barlow,
I also have the Pro Chrono but I bought a blue tooth made for it and it talks to you, no need to even get off the rifle as I use it to shoot F- Class for practice and tunning. I had the mag3 and the labradar, got rid of them both and am back to my pro crony and couldnt be happier. If interested Amazon has the blue tooth unit for around 54.00 and takes all but 2 mins to hook it up and your ready to go.
No POA impact and no lost of reception to the app.
Rob
I am an old low tech guy. A friend has the same unit that he runs with his smart phone. Thanks for the info. Barlow
 
I'm in the "don't need it camp"

I bought a magnetospeed on sale. I used it all the time and tried to develop a load with it, like so many folks claim to do, watching SD and ES. In the end, after a lot of ho hum results, I put it away and returned to my old target development method and found a load that shot much better. Haven't used the magnetospeed since.

I'd not waste money on one again. Other items have had a much larger effect on my shooting: better scopes, better bullets, better scale....
 
Reading and learning from all on this site, my question is, if you were to buy a chronograph which would you buy for load development. Lab Radar or a magnetospeed V3. Thoughts and opinions. Thanks
I had a Shooting Crony "Master-Beta" for many years, but I seldom used it because it was a pain in the butt to set up and usually it would only record about 80% to 90% of the shots fired. Last Christmas my wife gave me MagnetoSpeed V3. I have only used it on four outing to the range, but am totally impressed. It is easy to set up and has never missed recording a shot (150 shots +/-). I've shot it so far exclusively on an F-class rifle in 243 Win with a Criterion "Bull" barrel and I can't identify any change in POI with it attached. I know logically it should change, but on a rifle with a really heavy barrel (at least this one), it seems to have a negligible effect.
 

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