Changing calibers

[rjtfroggy]

I have a question about changing from 243 match to 6mm br.
Currently shooting a Criterion 243 match barrel at 100 & 200 score matches using a 1:8 twist barrel and doing decent but feel the limiting factor is me. Almost forgot Berger 105 target bullets at 2890 fps. There is about 1100 rounds down the tube and it is still holding just under 0.200 for five shot groups when practicing, but I think the barrel is getting close to it's end.
I have placed an order for a X Caliber 1:7 twist 24" full cylinder barrel in 6br and am wondering if I made the right choice, this is for short range BR matches (1- 200yard only).
Will there be or should there be a increase in accuracy, barrel life. I use a Savage PTA trigger right at 8oz. sitting in a Shehane stock with Kelby bases & rings and a Weaver T36.
Any and all comments welcome. Please just don't say change actions, I already have over 3k invested in this with out the new barrel.


PS I use IMR 4895 just over mid book load and will try to do the same with the new barrel

 

[riverwolf1]

I think you need to re-evaluate your caliber of choice, while you are doing well with the 243 AI,and heavier bullets the conventional wisdom for short range BR is 6ppc and in some cases 6br works well but with bullets in 65-68gr category! Large case capacity and heavier bullets equals more recoil, while a 6ppc or 6br with the lighter bullets equals less recoil which is more desirable for short range br! I would change the twist rate on the new barrel to a 1-14 twist and buy 65 gr bullets. If your shooting BR score matches then I would change to a 30BR which is the caliber of choice for 90% of competitors currently shooting score, and it is easy to tune and once tuned it stays tuned! it uses the 6BR case, necked up,H-4198 powder and 112-118 gr bullets. If you make the change your groups should be better due to less recoil. Now these are just my opinions, and I actually compete with the ppc and 30br, I run score matches in LaGrande, Or. and travel all ove the western U.S. shooting Group matches and the calibers I spoke of are what is being utilized. Others may have different opinions and thats good. hope you do well not matter what you choose.

 

[ebb]

What he said!

 

[savagedasher]

I think you need to re-evaluate your caliber of choice, while you are doing well with the 243 AI,and heavier bullets the conventional wisdom for short range BR is 6ppc and in some cases 6br works well but with bullets in 65-68gr category! Large case capacity and heavier bullets equals more recoil, while a 6ppc or 6br with the lighter bullets equals less recoil which is more desirable for short range br! I would change the twist rate on the new barrel to a 1-14 twist and buy 65 gr bullets. If your shooting BR score matches then I would change to a 30BR which is the caliber of choice for 90% of competitors currently shooting score, and it is easy to tune and once tuned it stays tuned! it uses the 6BR case, necked up,H-4198 powder and 112-118 gr bullets. If you make the change your groups should be better due to less recoil. Now these are just my opinions, and I actually compete with the ppc and 30br, I run score matches in LaGrande, Or. and travel all ove the western U.S. shooting Group matches and the calibers I spoke of are what is being utilized. Others may have different opinions and thats good. hope you do well not matter what you choose.

6 br will be ok with a 12 to 14 twist. 65 gr bullets a half the price of good 105 . But if I was just shooting score 30 BR would be my choice

So a plus 1 more on what is stated above. Larry

 

[nastynatesfish]

Why not just a 223 or 6x45?

 

[LHSmith]

Why not just a 223 or 6x45?

Depending on the rules under which the score matches are governed, the larger the caliber (there are limits - .40 cal I believe) the better the "best edge scoring" - .30 cal is the dominant cal in IBS and NBRSA for score shooting. However, from the OP's post it appears to be "club" shoots he's competing in since he proposes a build that would use a barrel contour not legal in the above organizations, besides being overweight. Aside from that, the gun would be legal in UBR ...or if entered in the "factory class" under IBS or NBRSA sanction ...IF the sponsoring club offers that class ....and it would be for fun only without any rewards or shooter points to be acrued as Factory Class is not recognized for record purposes. Fast twist = torque = bag upset = poor tracking. As Score Shooting is a timed event.....getting record shots off in "like conditions" is paramount to doing well. Also, in Score, the stock/bag(s) contact plus bench manners plays a huge role due to the fact one must move POA several inches between each record target (5) and the sighter.
Also, heavier than necessary bullets will cause more barrel heat which will likely create fliers unless the barrel has zero stress and the action bedding is well executed.

 

[rjtfroggy]

I do shoot at registered matches ( IBS ) but not for points because I am not a member of IBS. I am not competing against anyone but myself even though I shoot along side " VFS & Hunter" class shooters, I shoot for fun maybe someday I'll go for a custom built BR rifle and all the extra work involved with the 30 BR or a 6PPC But right now at 63 years young I'm not ready.
Our match director allows factory and what is called custom gun which is one that doesn't really fall in anywhere else. The whole reason is to get as many shooters involved as possible and it is working.
My main reason for the question was for barrel life. I know a bigger hole gives a bigger score but I am looking for a bigger score with a smaller hole ie better accuracy than what I am presently shooting. My scores as it stands are averaging in the low to mid 240's I just want to beat my own scores not set records. This barrel was ordered because I currently have 750-800 berger 105's on the bench so I may as well use them.

 

[riverwolf1]

Froggy,
It would seem that you like to compete in your local matches and enjoy competeing against yourself, but that proves absolutely nothing! I think besides a caliber change you need a mindset makeover. Look I am 67 and your 63, and you think that waiting to jump into a custom gun is a good idea for you, but each morning we wake up at our age is a bonus! There is no magic to buying and producing ammo for a 30BR, custom rifle and with the dollars that you have invested in your Savage right now would certainly if sold pay for a really nice used custom gun. There are guys shooting 30BR's that have over 5000 rounds through their barrels and they are still shooting winning scores! Those bullets you have put them up for sale on Accurate shooter, they will be gone quickly. The only thing that keeps guys from committing to a custom gun that is really competitive is, fear of failure when you are actually competing against others, I know this because I have a friend that is exactly like you, he has every excuse in the book as to why he doesn't want to go to a match! 5 months ago he bought a Bat 3 lug and still won't go to a match with us he says maybe he will go next year right and next year it will be the following year!
Wake up we are not getting younger and by the time you decide to jump into a custom gun, how old will you be then? Jump in with both feet and don't look back, and stop competing with yourself, its just an excuse you use to be un committed to stepping up to the next level. You don't have to go broke upgrading your rifle, there are a plethora of used customs available, go to Shooters corner and look at "The List" go to Benchrest Central and look in the classified and also here on Accurate shooter! Wait till the end of the season and by next spring you will be ready show up with a big smile and be one of the guys that says I am here to compete! I gurantee you will feel better when the match is over. My neighbor is 81 and I got him into shooting 2 years ago and early this year he found a 30BR with all the brass and dies for $1800.00 brought the info over and it was a Panda action ,Kreiger barrel, jewel trigger, all the bells and whistles I told him that it was good to go he bought it and last month at our club score match he shot his first 250-16X. you can do this just commit to it and you will recover from your current mindst quickly!

 

[LHSmith]

^^^^^ Ditto. One of my biggest regrets was watching from the sidelines for several years before I jumped into Registered competition for fear that I wasn't ready. I found that through competing and the "want to win" enabled me to learn more in the first year of competition than the previous 40 years of shooting. If you don't have an accurate rifle that you can trust, you're just wasting powder and lead and the most valuable - "your time". The fact that you regularly drop several points tells me you do not campaign such a gun.
FWIW, these classifieds make it extremely easy to sell existing equipment and find proven competition rifles and equipment.

 

[LHSmith]

Perhaps Tim Singleton will chime in - he was in the same boat 2 or 3 years ago. He needed encouragement to participate in a group match with the big boys, bit the bullet and just won a yardage agg against some HOF notables.

 

[Tozguy]

Froggy,
I understand where you are coming from and where you are at (I think).
It seems like you are ready to try the 6 BR and see for yourself where it leads. It should be fun. Unfortunately the bullets (105 Bergers) you have on hand might not give you the best accuracy from a new 6BR barrel for short range benchrest. Getting a new barrel just to shoot off some left over bullets might be false economy. I think that quality handmade bullets in the 64 to 68 gr. weight range would be a better choice here. Of course the chamber should be cut for the bullet that you choose.
Oh and by the way I am 70 years old.

 

[Tim Singleton]

IMO
Answering your first question a 7 twist with heavy bullets would not be my choice for 100-200 yard shooting. A 6br in a 14-12 twist would be better a ppc even better
Loading for a 6ppc is not that difficult. A learning curve yes, for sure. But if extreme accuracy at short range you either shoot the ppc or your competing for last place.

Don't let it go by, if it's something you enjoy. Life to short

 

[butchlambert]

Remember,
He said he is shooting just under .200 5 shot groups. If that is the case, we need to listen to him.

 

[rayporter]

Butch is not long winded and he gets to the point awful fast!

 

[maxscm]

Remember,
He said he is shooting just under .200 5 shot groups. If that is the case, we need to listen to him.

Ditto the above ,
and with a Factory Action Too!

 

[riverwolf1]

Butch,
you and I both know that consistently shooting .200 on average is something that does not happen even with the best shooters handling the rifle! Two weeks ago Rod Brown shoot two teen aggs, and I will guarantee you that all of his groups were not.200 and under! He also said hes shootig score and shooting 240 ish he has the wrong gear, why not try to guide him to the right gear!

 

[LHSmith]

^^^^^ FWIW a rifle must agg 0.370" or smaller with a 6mm to shoot "clean" @ 100 yds. (clean = a 250 score) If shooting a .30 cal then it must agg 0.404". Single yardage agg = Five sets of 5 individual targets for a total of 25 targets for record. So...... it must hold the agging ability listed, essentially "all day long" . There-in usually lies the problem.
To put this in perspective, the holy grail in Score @100 yds. is a 250/25x/ 25 WO (wipeout) A WO being an X that has been totally obliterated. To get there one would have to shoot an agg of 0.060" with a 6mm, or a 0.092" with a .30. Current record is 21 WO and a potential new record is pending official measurement.

 

[rjtfroggy]

OK let me see if I can clarify some of this:
1st for Butch, I have shot consecutive 0.163 & 0.167 then the third group goes to 0.290 when shooting from dead level concrete benches at the range I practice at, and I have done it more than once. My last score match was a 243-3x, my first target for score I screwed up and forgot to tighten the windage top, and these are off Trex shooting benches that leave something as far as being dead level(some are twisted). Limiting factor ME, forget to do something all the time.( set the rest, tighten windage adj., something.)
Now here is a little back ground why I am not into the higher stress competitive mind set. Worked and lived high stress all my life and now shoot to relax but that is not the only reason. I have had 8 Lumbar surgeries and am fused from s1 to l3 plus a few more corrective surgeries. By the time I have my bench set up I hurt so bad that getting comfortable behind the rifle is next to impossible so concentration is almost nil, not always but more than I like to admit, tried 3 different stools but feel the benches are still a little low for me. If I could travel up and down the east coast, Maine-Penn. I would already have the custom build after all I spent almost as much on this Savage so I could build it myself.
I have a brand new in the tube 308 10 twist that I could send out for a re chamber to 30br( Douglas select) and go with the 110gr fb or the 125SMK and it should work but will need to go on a different action, which is not a problem because I have a action that I
could change the trigger and stock and do decent with (just another option).
But the original question was more about barrel life not my ability to compete in the VFS class.

 

[JRS]

For barrel life, go with the 30. Considering your physical problems, the 6BR is much more tolerable.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Sorry to hear of your back problems. I know some of your pain. Having my third back surgery in 2 weeks. The season is over for me.
Sell the 30cal blank and go with a 12 twist 6br