Cartridge Destruction

[timeout]

Just had an experience that I've not ever had before, and don't want it to happen again. While out crow hunting, I had what I believe to be a hangfire. I was wearing shooting muffs at the time. Had some crows coming in and one right over the top of me. I pointed the 11-87 skyward and squeezed the trigger. I heard an almost inaudible pop and nothing. Just had time enough for the brain to think the shell wasn't going to go off and BANG. I felt something whiz past my hand which was still on the trigger. I lowered the shotgun and peered into an open chamber to see a crumpled/mutilated shotgun hull. I don't know if any shot exited out the side or not. Wad, or plastic from the hull, or something went out the side. I'm thinking the primer going off may have released the slide and then the main charge exploded? The only thing I'm quite sure of is that there was a pause between the primer going off and the main charge exploding. I just purchased the ammo yesterday. It was Federal Prairie Storm, 3", #6 shot, factory ammunition. I'm curious if anyone here has had a similar experience with an autoloader shotgun? I've owned this gun many years and have never had a minutes trouble with it.

 

[timeout]

Phone pics. Sorry for the poor quality.

 

[Ray B]

Not sure what the cause, but if the primer fires and the shell remains intact (for the moment) all that will be heard is the click of the firing pin. So I'm guessing that there was a partial ignition of the powder and initial movement of shot out the barrel, which would have been the first pop, which would have had enough inertia to get the action open, at which time the remainder of the powder ignited and the hull, no longer supported by the chamber and locked bolt, yielded to the pressure, blowing out the side of the action past your hand. since it's factory fresh ammo, I'd be in contact with Federal,

 

[timeout]

Not sure what the cause, but if the primer fires and the shell remains intact (for the moment) all that will be heard is the click of the firing pin. So I'm guessing that there was a partial ignition of the powder and initial movement of shot out the barrel, which would have been the first pop, which would have had enough inertia to get the action open, at which time the remainder of the powder ignited and the hull, no longer supported by the chamber and locked bolt, yielded to the pressure, blowing out the side of the action past your hand. since it's factory fresh ammo, I'd be in contact with Federal,

Thanks for your reply. I would think the pop of a primer going off could be heard with muffs on but a firing pin click maybe not so much? My doubt would be if the firing of a primer would be enough to unlock the chamber. I haven't looked the gun over yet to analyze exactly how much force is required to unlock and move it rearward. I will be contacting Federal on Monday.

 

[Tommie]

Not sure what the cause, but if the primer fires and the shell remains intact (for the moment) all that will be heard is the click of the firing pin. So I'm guessing that there was a partial ignition of the powder and initial movement of shot out the barrel, which would have been the first pop, which would have had enough inertia to get the action open, at which time the remainder of the powder ignited and the hull, no longer supported by the chamber and locked bolt, yielded to the pressure, blowing out the side of the action past your hand. since it's factory fresh ammo, I'd be in contact with Federal,

My thoughts exactly.

 

[nakneker]

Who knows what happened but Rays guess echos my own. His suggestion of contacting Federal is a good one though. I’m glad you weren’t hurt!

 

[timeout]

Who knows what happened but Rays guess echos my own. His suggestion of contacting Federal is a good one though. I’m glad you weren’t hurt!

Me too! And I will contact Federal Monday for sure.

 

[Westhunder]

Me too! And I will contact Federal Monday for sure.

i do a fair amount of upland hunting, i have never had this happen to me, but buddies of mine. for some reason shotgun shells are notorious for this. there can be up to a 5 second delay. i have heard horror stories of people shucking the shells and pick them up and them go off and numerous other things. the worst option is lowering the barrel in an unsafe direction. they always told me that it if happened, count to 10 before ejecting shell, and keep pointed up. the surprising thing is that you got enough of a failure to fire to slide the bolt back a little... luckily they are virtually harmless if not in the chamber, may have to change your shorts though.

 

[22BRGUY]

I've heard or read about something like this several years back. The main thing of course is that neither you nor anyone else was hurt....Thank God! I remember hearing that if a firearm doesn't fire when the firing pin drops, it's best to just hold the firearm in position and wait at least one minute or longer expecting the thing could still go off. I've had misfires at the range a couple of times and always did that.
Glad you are well.

 

[Depart123]

I don't know if any shot exited out the side or not. Wad, or plastic from the hull, or something went out the side. I'm thinking the primer going off may have released the slide and then the main charge exploded? The only thing I'm quite sure of is that there was a pause between the primer going off and the main charge exploding.

I think your theory of a two stage ignition is spot on. Looking at the shell, it is obvious that the main ignition occurred with the shell out of battery.

 

[jk80]

I shoot trap and go through around 20 thousand plus shells a year. Just in the last two or three years have I gotten into rifle shooting. Over thirty years of shooting shotguns I've experienced 5 or 6 true hangfires where you could hear the hammer fall and a noticable lag to firing. All went off before I barely got the gun off my shoulder. I think your 1187 fired out of battery which can sometimes happen with any autoloader. Check your firing pin to make sure it isn't hanging up and check to see no crap has built up on the barrel Tang. A high primer might be the culprit as well. Glad your okay!

 

[Darrel Martin]

Sometime early in my experiences with guns , I remember my dad saying that you never immediately eject a cartridge that fails to fire.Just enough pop to unlock an autoloader is an odd occurrence, glad you are safe.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Its not the gun man those are solid. Be careful out there

 

[Rsadams]

+1 on contacting federal... Since this isn't the first time you have fired the gun I really doubt that it is the problem... A good cleaning , oiling and inspection never hurts... I will admit I shoot more now than when younger but here recently I have noticed problems with some different factory loads.. I recently experienced some soft shooting .38spl in the middle of a box of plinker Remingtons.. A few weeks later I found an odd , I thought cracked new Remington case but it turns out it's formed badly after looking at it under high magnification....

I got into reloading shotshells to save some money on 00 buck loads to train with , after getting into it I found loading for the shotgun it is very important to stick to load data because of the lower pressure it works with... Even changing primers like we do in centerfire can lead to over pressure.. With factory ammo being churned out at the pace they do and with every company trying to cut corners to save a buck it's scary... Just for kicks go to some of their websites and look at their recall notice pages.

 

[Syncrowave]

Bad ammo. I wouldn't use it. Federal should give you a refund.

 

[dickn52]

USUALLY (note the all caps thing) when a shotshell goes off, even on a hangfire. The pellets will actually leave the barrel in a dribble. Point the barrel down and watch them roll out. Then it's a simple eject by hand, check the barrel, drop a wad weasel down it from the front if needed. Clear and go again.

 

[dickn52]

Its not the gun man those are solid. Be careful out there

On the 1100 series though the o-rings are very important too.

 

[LitLBoy]

JK80 has it right --- gun fired out of battery. Question is WHY?
LitLBoy

 

[timeout]

USUALLY (note the all caps thing) when a shotshell goes off, even on a hangfire. The pellets will actually leave the barrel in a dribble. Point the barrel down and watch them roll out. Then it's a simple eject by hand, check the barrel, drop a was weasel down it from the front if needed. Clear and go again.

Wasn't 100% simple eject. Wadded up destroyed hull with the next full shell crammed underneath that. Cleared it, but I want to completely check the gun over before I go again. This could have been real serious.

 

[jk80]

Hi timeout. Try stripping the bolt down and clean everything good. It doesn't take much crap to cause a problem and semi autos do get some blow back in em. Not knocking 1187 but I've shot a lot through Remington and Beretta semi autos and you won't believe what you can find in the receiver. I've had shot get in triggers and dropped a trigger out of a Beretta for a guy on my squad and found a primer that backed out of a shell. It wouldn't let the bolt come back. A amazing amount of crap like powder debris can even get back in a locked breech gun. I guess a shotgun operating at lower pressure combined with fairly loose Chambers on almost all shotguns don't help the shells seal up well.