Carbon Fiber Barrels

[uncle fester]

If I wanted to build a lightweight rifle which could be threaded for a suppressor, say a 20" barrel in 270 WSM, would a steel barrel be heavier than a CF? If so, by how much?

 

[B23]

If I wanted to build a lightweight rifle which could be threaded for a suppressor, say a 20" barrel in 270 WSM, would a steel barrel be heavier than a CF? If so, by how much?

I think I'm pretty close but you'd want to double check my numbers with someone at Bartlein to be sure but a Bartlein #3 Hvy Sporter at 20in would have a muzzle diameter of .743 and weigh 5-7oz more than a Proof CF 20in barrel. And that's enough muzzle diameter for a 5/8x24 thread suppressor.

 

[INTJ]

I have shot a bunch of carbon wrapped barrels during load development.

In general.......

I'd say roughly 20-30% of the carbon wrapped barrels, of any brand, just don't shoot. I have sent several back, and all the barrel makers are very good about warranty returns. Another 10-20% are .7 to .8 MOA barrels at best. 50-60% of them shoot very well. Some of those are stupid accurate.

When you consider all that is going on it's amazing that any carbon wrapped barrel shoots at all. You have three materials--steel, carbon fiber, and resin--that are all expanding and contracting at different rates.

With steel barrels, 90%+ shoot very well. It's rare to get a poor shooting steel barrel of a reasonable contour.

The worst carbon barrels seem to be the light contour barrels, especially in .284 cal and larger. These often have a 1.2" shank and a .750 muzzle. The "Sendero" contour barrels seem ok, and the bull or magnum contour barrels seem fine--I think some of the large contour carbon fiber barrels are #4 or #5 contour steel blanks with carbon wrap applied.

A spiral or diamond fluted #5 contour steel barrel is within a couple ounces of a carbon wrapped Sendero contour. I have weighed several of each.

BTW, no one competing in an accuracy discipline uses a carbon wrapped barrel. That said, they are fine on most hunting rifles and many guys like the way they look.

 

[boltfluter]

If you guys need something fluted, "I am here to help". Lol!

Paul

 

[284winner]

Obviously heavy guns out shoot light guns let's face it. If they didn't all guns in competition would be lightweight guns. For this reason, carbon barrels are not a first choice for top accuracy. That said, my carbon barrels all shoot within my sendero and heavy steel varmint barrels. I'm a Hunter not a competitive shooter so of course 1/2" groups are acceptable for me. A lot of groups are one ragged whole groups from my carbon barrels. I have never been disappointed with any carbon wrapped barrels since using them. The only negative for me about a carbon wrapped barrel is the heat up much faster than the same diameter steel barrel does. I just need to take more breaks between shooting strings.

 

[uncle fester]

I think I'm pretty close but you'd want to double check my numbers with someone at Bartlein to be sure but a Bartlein #3 Hvy Sporter at 20in would have a muzzle diameter of .743 and weigh 5-7oz more than a Proof CF 20in barrel. And that's enough muzzle diameter for a 5/8x24 thread suppressor.

Thanks.
- I love my Kimber Hunter, but the barrel is not close to thick enough to thread (In a sane way).
- My next build will try to replicate it with a thicker barrel which has to be threaded.

 

[Carl S]

This is a proof barrel,DPT sound moderator,the mod weighs 194 grams.the Thermion 2 XQ50 weighs 2lbs.my swarovski is half that weight.without bipod its a light rifle.i cannot complain about the proof barrel it's a real tack driver and the Foxes don't like it.

 

[B23]

Thanks.
- I love my Kimber Hunter, but the barrel is not close to thick enough to thread (In a sane way).
- My next build will try to replicate it with a thicker barrel which has to be threaded.

Here's a link to thread specs and minimum barrel diameter TBAC Suppressors recommends. https://thunderbeastarms.com/tech/thread-specifications

 

[INTJ]

Obviously heavy guns out shoot light guns let's face it. If they didn't all guns in competition would be lightweight guns. For this reason, carbon barrels are not a first choice for top accuracy. That said, my carbon barrels all shoot within my sendero and heavy steel varmint barrels. I'm a Hunter not a competitive shooter so of course 1/2" groups are acceptable for me. A lot of groups are one ragged whole groups from my carbon barrels. I have never been disappointed with any carbon wrapped barrels since using them. The only negative for me about a carbon wrapped barrel is the heat up much faster than the same diameter steel barrel does. I just need to take more breaks between shooting strings.

You have been lucky. The 20-30% of carbon wrapped barrels that are bad shoot like 2" groups with any load. At least it's easy to identify those barrels before we spend of a ton money in load development.

The ones that are problematic are the 10 to 20% that are .7 to .8 barrels. Now those are actually fine for hunting out to very long distances, but a guy that's just spent $8-9k on his hunting rig isn't happy with that accuracy.

 

[INTJ]

Thanks.
- I love my Kimber Hunter, but the barrel is not close to thick enough to thread (In a sane way).
- My next build will try to replicate it with a thicker barrel which has to be threaded.

The Kimber barrels are indeed too light of a contour. A brake will work with .040" of shoulder (.020" per side).

Ideally we want at least .280" (.140" each side) of muzzle thickness over bore diameter. I personally know that works. Now some get away with thinner walls, like a 1/2"-28 thread o a 30 caliber, but it's not really a great idea.

 

[White Eagle]

There has been a lot of broad brush statements ( kinda like a 220 swift is a barrel burner)
Heavy does not mean accurate it means heavy
I have had plenty of light rifles that out shoot heavier ones
my carbon wrapped barrel out of the box shoots Barnes TTSX bullets into a .500-.750 in 5 shot group consistently
look at the reviews of the waypoint 2020 and this is no fluke everyone that has one says they are unbelievable accurate and they come with a .750 guarantee
not sure how many make your own ammo but that is the way to customize the ammo to the gun but it can be done with factory fodder
pick your barrel, make a educated purchase and dial it in

 

[INTJ]

There has been a lot of broad brush statements ( kinda like a 220 swift is a barrel burner)
Heavy does not mean accurate it means heavy
I have had plenty of light rifles that out shoot heavier ones
my carbon wrapped barrel out of the box shoots Barnes TTSX bullets into a .500-.750 in 5 shot group consistently
look at the reviews of the waypoint 2020 and this is no fluke everyone that has one says they are unbelievable accurate and they come with a .750 guarantee
not sure how many make your own ammo but that is the way to customize the ammo to the gun but it can be done with factory fodder
pick your barrel, make a educated purchase and dial it in

I guess I just don't agree at all. First, I am not making broad brush statements. We shoot a LOT of carbon wrapped barrels, and we have the most issues by far with carbon wrapped barrels--as I described earlier in this thread.

It's not just my shop. Just about every decent rifle-builder I know, and ALL of the competition shooters I know, dislike carbon wrapped barrels because of how many don't shoot well. Further, the issues with carbon wrapped barrels are well know in the industry.

Now I am glad you are happy with the accuracy of your barrel. If our customers would be happy with a rifle that shoots .5 to .7 (and they should be) then we would have fewer carbon barrel issues. However, our customers want consistent sub 1/2 MOA and are not happy until we find that. There is a MUCH better chance of delivering that with a #5 contour stainless barrel--even a heavily fluted one, than with a carbon wrapped barrel.

Finally, heavier absolutely does mean more accuracy potential. Heavy meaning the more steel in the barrel the better. That's why we run 7 lb HV contour barrels in our "light class" LR BR barrels. Heavy class barrels routinely weigh 12-13 lbs.

 

[Clancy]

I guess I just don't agree at all. First, I am not making broad brush statements. We shoot a LOT of carbon wrapped barrels, and we have the most issues by far with carbon wrapped barrels--as I described earlier in this thread.

It's not just my shop. Just about every decent rifle-builder I know, and ALL of the competition shooters I know, dislike carbon wrapped barrels because of how many don't shoot well. Further, the issues with carbon wrapped barrels are well know in the industry.

Now I am glad you are happy with the accuracy of your barrel. If our customers would be happy with a rifle that shoots .5 to .7 (and they should be) then we would have fewer carbon barrel issues. However, our customers want consistent sub 1/2 MOA and are not happy until we find that. There is a MUCH better chance of delivering that with a #5 contour stainless barrel--even a heavily fluted one, than with a carbon wrapped barrel.

Finally, heavier absolutely does mean more accuracy potential. Heavy meaning the more steel in the barrel the better. That's why we run 7 lb HV contour barrels in our "light class" LR BR barrels. Heavy class barrels routinely weigh 12-13 lbs.

Hit the nail on the head. I’m a Krieger 5 fan for light guns. My last one was a BRA and it would very consistently shoot 3 shots in the mid ones and 5 shots in the mid twos. I don’t think very man carbon barrels will do that.

And you’re right about the .75 moa carbon barrels being frustrating. Mine would throw some teasers in there around .35 but ultimately I gave up after 250 rounds. I subtracted the full cost of the barrel from the build and sold it to a friend. He hung a giant can on it and hunts with it- couldn’t be happier.