Can you suggest a good substitute for the 284Win?

[Zero333]

How much do you think 284 is rebated?

284 Win is rebated by 0.028" compared to the diameter of the body above the the extractor groove.

7 RSAUM is roughly 0.017"

In reality even 0.050" isn't all that much.

 

[VaniB]

I'm wanting a round that is more powerful then a 7-08. I currently own a Rem700 in 270 which I am planning to use as the donor. I overlooked that my 270 bolt will not accommodate the SAUM magnum cartridges.

I do NOT hunt, and so this gun is mostly for the fun of owning a deadly accurate long distance rifle. (Don't laugh...I don't hunt but still own and enjoy a 300Weatherby, Marlin 45/70 and 444)
The 280AI appeals to me, and I like it's readily available in 280AI Hornady brass (or Lapua 30-06 brass necked down) but for target accuracy shouldn't the long powder column of the 280 be less then ideal? I'm really hoping to shoot 5 shot 1/2" groups or smaller with whatever I choose.

 

[mike mccormick]

Long action, standard bolt face, stick with the 284 with an 8 twist throated for the 183gr bullets. From 100 to 1000, you have a shooter

 

[CarlGeorge]

I can't speak to the non-.284 cartridges that have been mentioned on this thread. But I can speak a little to the .284. I just got my first .284 a little over a month ago. I recently did a 4-shot ~.3" group at 200 yds. And I think the barrel is still settling in. I've only got about 140 rounds down the barrel. It appears this thing is going to do very well for what I'm hoping to do with it. (which is 1,000 yard as a hobbyist....no firm plans to compete but....one never knows). I'm shooting the 180 Hybrids. It's just wonderful to shoot.

 

[F Class John]

I love the .284 and I’ve been shooting one for years now, never really felt the need to change yet. Not too much for mid-range and great for long-range. Of course that can be said of a dozen other cartridges as well so find something you enjoy shooting and does the job you need and you’ll be good. On a side note, perhaps I don't understand the argument but I've never had an issue with the rebated rim other than having to buy specific things like loading trays or ammo boxes to accommodate the smidge more width over the standard .308 bolt face cartridges.

 

[AckleymanII]

OP does not seem interested in barrel life of the various 7mm for just informal range group shooting...hummmm....

 

[AckleymanII]

7/08 I think is what you are looking for, 40.6g of Varget with 162 eldm will give you around 2700 rounds of barrel life. If you work up a load with AR Comp, chances are it will be more.

284 will give you around 1200 rounds of barrel life, same with 280 and AI. Bigger 7's are around 1000 rounds of barrel life.

Choose your poison.

 

[Evan]

7/08 I think is what you are looking for, 40.6g of Varget with 162 eldm will give you around 2700 rounds of barrel life. If you work up a load with AR Comp, chances are it will be more.

284 will give you around 1200 rounds of barrel life, same with 280 and AI. Bigger 7's are around 1000 rounds of barrel life.

Choose your poison.

Since he isn't competing, barrel life will be longer depending on his shooting habits.

I'd go 280 if you've got a 270 donor. It'll meet your accuracy requirements.

 

[VaniB]

F class John,
I can assume the extractor on my 270 Rem700 bolt will work as reliably on the rebated 284 as the good performance I've had with any other cartridge in my 700's? That was my only concern.

Ackleymanll,
What's "barrel life" mean? LOL. I don't hunt or formerly compete and so don't shoot more then maybe 300-400 rounds total thru my bolt rifles. My ladder testing is the first 200 rounds. I enjoy the fruit of my labor doing 5 shot 3/8" MOA clusters for another range visit or two, then I yawn & start my next rifle project.
Ackleymanll,
I can appreciate your 7-08 suggestion. I know it's inherently accurate while easy on the shoulder. But I own an AR10 and custom 6.5CM and now MEH with 308 based cases.

Evan,
I assume the 284 with long bullets would feed well in a long action 700 if I desire to use it as a repeater?? Though I always hand feed my cartridges into the chamber, I want the box magazine as a working option. I've never owned a LA rifle intended to feed SA cartridges and seek input about the reliability of it feeding. I'm under the impression that a 284 has better accuracy then a 280AI, but it's a deal killer if the 284Win can't feed smooth and proper in an LA 700.

Maybe I can google 280AI accuracy and find some posted photos of targets. (??) I'd feel better knowing it's capable of tight clusters if I do my part. Unfortunately any time the 280 is mentioned in archives, I find it's in the context of a hunting rifle which doesn't require demanding 1/2" MOA target accuracy I seek.

 

[coldboreshot]

Can you suggest a good substitute for the 284Win?

Why???

 

[F Class John]

F class John,
I can assume the extractor on my 270 Rem700 bolt will work as reliably on the rebated 284 as the good performance I've had with any other cartridge in my 700's? That was my only concern.

I can’t speak to every gun but I shoot with a lot of guys who have everything from Rem700 actions to custom stuff like my Defiance and its never been an issue.

 

[Ringostar]

Since you mentioned looking up potential accuracy of the 280AI. I’ll give you one. This however was a non improved 280. The 2012 F class nationals was won by David Bailey shooting a regular 280 and even used Remington brass.

 

[Sniper338]

If I was shooting at 100 yards only, there aint no way I would use a 284 or anything near it. Thats a waste of components and your shoulder.

22 ppc or 6ppc would be my choice to stack bullets at 100 yards.. Id build a new gun is what Im saying.. id rather have a new barrel on a cheap action in a cheap stock for 100 yards than shoot a 284 at that distance.. jmo nothing more though.

 

[284winner]

At one time about 10 years ago I had considered having a Rem 700 custom rifle smithed for me in the 284. The intent is to have a long action rifle in the 7mm/284 caliber that is capable of long range, but will mostly be used for 1/4" MOA target shooting at the 100 yard public range. There have been so many new fat cased cartridges in the last 15 years that I can't keep up with them.

I prefer a 284 cal cartridge that is no less powerful as the 284Win, but is not rebated at the rim and does NOT hold more powder then the 7mmMag. It's ok if it's long action, but I prefer something I can handload for 1/4"- 3/8" MOA potential. Or do you think the 284Win case is still a good choice?

No substitute for the Good Old 284 Win. Sorry. The 280 will do anything the 284 will do but it's no substitute. Accuracy will be superior in the 284. The 280 is a fantastic hunting cartridge as is the 284 but tough to beat the 284 for anything shooting.

 

[acloco]

280 Rem
280 AI
7x57
7x62

There are several available to you.

 

[XTR]

Is this a hunting rifle? If so then go 7-08 and never look back. But you don’t need a long action

 

[VaniB]

F Class John,
Thanks for the input. I'll not concern myself any longer about my standard Rem700 donor rifle bolt having problems with the 284 rebated rim.

coldboreshot,
I was trying to get power close to that of a 7mmMag. I see now that the the 284Win is going to have the premium accuracy I want compared to the 280 or 280AI, and the rebated rim is NOT a concern. Thanks.

XTR,
As already explained to Ackleymanll in my loooong #29 post, I'm bored with SA 308 based rifles. Might as well put to use my 270 Rem700 I bought for a donor rifle years ago. The recoil of 30 to 35 rounds of 284Win for 100 yard targets is not intolerable to me.

284Winner,
I was kind of thinking already that the 284Win proly has the edge, and your post reinforced that for me. If I can't get 1/2" 5 shot groups in my bolt actions, I dump the rifle. So choosing a cartridge with the edge is important. Thanks.

Thanks everyone else too for your input.

 

[284winner]

F Class John,
Thanks for the input. I'll not concern myself any longer about my standard Rem700 donor rifle bolt having problems with the 284 rebated rim.

coldboreshot,
I was trying to get power close to that of a 7mmMag. I see now that the the 284Win is going to have the premium accuracy I want compared to the 280 or 280AI, and the rebated rim is NOT a concern. Thanks.

XTR,
As already explained to Ackleymanll in my loooong #29 post, I'm bored with SA 308 based rifles. Might as well put to use my 270 Rem700 I bought for a donor rifle years ago. The recoil of 30 to 35 rounds of 284Win for 100 yard targets is not intolerable to me.

284Winner,
I was kind of thinking already that the 284Win proly has the edge, and your post reinforced that for me. If I can't get 1/2" 5 shot groups in my bolt actions, I dump the rifle. So choosing a cartridge with the edge is important. Thanks.

Thanks everyone else too for your input.

As I've posted in other threads, I built a short action 284 a few years ago. I'd been shooting a long action 284 with 180 class bullets for years but when Alliant introduced the RE17, I decided to build a short action and shoot exclusively the 160-168 grain bullets for deer. Once built and load development was complete, I realized I could accurately get 3000 fps with a 162 Hornady eld bullet. It amazed me then and still does. 7mm mag performance (factory ammo)in a short action 284 (OAL 2.975). I haven't really shot my Long action 284 since. I mostly used it on steel at 3/4 mile and really fell in love with the SA 284. No going back for me.

 

[VaniB]

As I've posted in other threads, I built a short action 284 a few years ago. I'd been shooting a long action 284 with 180 class bullets for years but when Alliant introduced the RE17, I decided to build a short action and shoot exclusively the 160-168 grain bullets for deer. Once built and load development was complete, I realized I could accurately get 3000 fps with a 162 Hornady eld bullet. It amazed me then and still does. 7mm mag performance (factory ammo)in a short action 284 (OAL 2.975). I haven't really shot my Long action 284 since. I mostly used it on steel at 3/4 mile and really fell in love with the SA 284. No going back for me.

284winner;
Could you do some esplainin for me? In order for the 284Win case to fit inside a Rem 700 S.action, the cartridge must not be not much over the posted 2.80" OAL in all books. I'm not sure that the 2.975" OAL will even physically fit in the internal SA magazine without a good dab of ky. Also, the 162gr and 175 bullets go way into the case and powder too at 2.80" and the cartridge needs to be 3.135" long to have the bullet bearing surface down at the bottom of the neck instead into the powder. At 3.135" OAL, that is definitely a LA. Furthermore, I have no reload books that list ANY kind of powders that go beyond 2,700 to 2,800fps, and alliant doesn't show but only one load with RL17 you use, and that's for a 110gr bullet. Yes, I know we can fudge and get higher velocities then what books show, but adding another 200fps to 3,000fps is a mystery to me without a long 32" barrel. lol (btw; I'm planning on a 24-26")

Finally, at a glance I've never see much difference between a Rem SA, vs, the LA except perhaps one has a 3/4" longer bolt and you have to shove it an extra 3/4" each way. You yourself said that you dumped your LA to use the SA in the same 284 cartridge. For you, there is obviously a big enough fault between the SA and LA to have abandoned your LA. I'd like to know. I can always sell my perfect used LA and replace it with a short action if I've overlooked something important.

Don't mean to challenge you. I'm just trying to know what I can and can't plan with my project.

 

[284winner]

284winner;
Could you do some esplainin for me? In order for the 284Win case to fit inside a Rem 700 S.action, the cartridge must not be not much over the posted 2.80" OAL in all books. I'm not sure that the 2.975" OAL will even physically fit in the internal SA magazine without a good dab of ky. Also, the 162gr and 175 bullets go way into the case and powder too at 2.80" and the cartridge needs to be 3.135" long to have the bullet bearing surface down at the bottom of the neck instead into the powder. At 3.135" OAL, that is definitely a LA. Furthermore, I have no reload books that list ANY kind of powders that go beyond 2,700 to 2,800fps, and alliant doesn't show but only one load with RL17 you use, and that's for a 110gr bullet. Yes, I know we can fudge and get higher velocities then what books show, but adding another 200fps to 3,000fps is a mystery to me without a long 32" barrel. lol (btw; I'm planning on a 24-26")

Finally, at a glance I've never see much difference between a Rem SA, vs, the LA except perhaps one has a 3/4" longer bolt and you have to shove it an extra 3/4" each way. You yourself said that you dumped your LA to use the SA in the same 284 cartridge. For you, there is obviously a big enough fault between the SA and LA to have abandoned your LA. I'd like to know. I can always sell my perfect used LA and replace it with a short action if I've overlooked something important.

Don't mean to challenge you. I'm just trying to know what I can and can't plan with my project.

First off, I have bottom metal and DBMs. The accurate mags allow 2.975 max OAL. While true that the 162s need to be seated deeper due to that OAL, the RE17 powder more than makes up for the lack of case capacity. When the 17 came out, I was able to move the 180s at just a tad less than 3000 fps with my 284 LA and a 28" barrel. That's when I realized that with a 25" barrel and 162s, I could probably get 2900+ in a short action. I was pleasantly surprised to get over 3000 fps in the end. 2990 is my best accuracy with a tad over being real close. I suggest that you look up 284 tactical hunter. I believe it's in the 6mmbr website. If not, Google 284 Tactical hunter. I just read an article about a gentleman that put together a short action 284 for a hunting rifle as I did. I think he was using Accubond 160s but basically the same weight and using RE17 as well. His results mirrored mine. My goal was also to build a 10lb hunting rifle. It was a tough task and I failed by about 11oz. Overall I'm happy with the finished product. BTW, I didn't totally abandon the LA version, it's just on vacation until I need to shoot the heavies. My OAL was 3.30 with the 180+ bullets. The LA was necessary for the heavies. The short action is ideal for the 160 class bullets.