C4...working?

[Tesoro]

No solvent?

oops should have said yes but no. Yes solvent first to clean out the gunk then take a look with borescope to see how much copper and where and to look at the carbon job ahead of you. Then the JB and elbow work. I put my rifles in a big vice on workbench in the shop for the stroking work.

 

[JFrank]

I clean most of the guns that come into the pawn shop, I can tell you with certainty that I’ve never seem a clean one come in.
Solvents alone will not clean a barrel worth a damn unless you don’t have a bore scope.

 

[JEFFPPC]

oops should have said yes but no. Yes solvent first to clean out the gunk then take a look with borescope to see how much copper and where and to look at the carbon job ahead of you. Then the JB and elbow work. I put my rifles in a big vice on workbench in the shop for the stroking work.

Actually that is pretty much my procedure although I also like to swab the barrel with solvent as soon as I am done shooting allowing it to soak until I get home and start with abrasives. I have determined all the bottles of whatever do little so I just stick to Hoppes for the ride home and a flush when done. Thanks for verifying.

 

[Turkeytider]

I clean most of the guns that come into the pawn shop, I can tell you with certainty that I’ve never seem a clean one come in.
Solvents alone will not clean a barrel worth a damn unless you don’t have a bore scope.

Just for fun and curiosity, is there a consensus that, no matter what solvents might be used, or the cleaning regimen used, you cannot adequately clean a rifle barrel without scrubbing the ever lovin’ hell out of it with a metal brush?

 

[JEFFPPC]

Through 1700 round, I can’t see any diminished accuracy with my Savage Model 12 LRPV in .223. Of course, that’s not a lot of rounds for a .223. Maybe if I waited 100 + rounds or so before running ANYTHING through my barrels, or waiting until “ the rifle tells me it needs to be cleaned”, I might have some carbon related issues? I don’t know.

Your target certainly always tells the truth.

 

[JEFFPPC]

A very smart gunsmith told me years ago everyone worries about the wrong end of the barrel. He said the last 10 inches is where it's at. I have come to agree with that.

 

[DShortt]

A very smart gunsmith told me years ago everyone worries about the wrong end of the barrel. He said the last 10 inches is where it's at. I have come to agree with that.

I understand the point. I also understand there are no absolutes.

 

[jelenko]

Just for fun and curiosity, is there a consensus that, no matter what solvents might be used, or the cleaning regimen used, you cannot adequately clean a rifle barrel without scrubbing the ever lovin’ hell out of it with a metal brush?

For my shooting [50-80 rounds, start cleaning after I get home] it's not just the bronze brush [never stainless steel] it's the abrasive to get the hard carbon out.
With your cleaning after ever 20-30 rounds and if you put solvent into the bore just after finishing, I think there are people who seldom need to use an abrasive. My perception is with very few exceptions, even these shooters use bronze brushes.

ETA. Forgot to include: We're only cleaning to maintain accuracy => the target will tell you.

Some say to not clean until accuracy degrades or find the condition in the barrel where accuracy degrades, then just clean enough so that in your next session accuracy won't degrade. Hence you're cleaning out one session's worth of fouling.
This seems to be essentially the same as cleaning thoroughly after each session.

 

[jwv2001]

Anybody remember this? This was supposed to be the cure for carbon. Until I found out there wasn't a problem.

 

[Tesoro]

Actually that is pretty much my procedure although I also like to swab the barrel with solvent as soon as I am done shooting allowing it to soak until I get home and start with abrasives. I have determined all the bottles of whatever do little so I just stick to Hoppes for the ride home and a flush when done. Thanks for verifying.

the only one that smells good is hoppes so i use it too.

 

[DShortt]

Anybody remember this? This was supposed to be the cure for carbon. Until I found out there wasn't a problem.


View attachment 1632556

I was late to the game, so I never got a chance to test that stuff for myself.
Then again, I think that stuff was rendered obsolete before affordable bore scopes came to be, so it really doesn't matter.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I understand the point. I also understand there are no absolutes.

There are also lots of rules/ opinions given as absolutes based on money to be made.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I

Anybody remember this? This was supposed to be the cure for carbon. Until I found out there wasn't a problem.


View attachment 1632556

still have some.

 

[JBT47]

My factory Howa 6.5 Creed barrel seems to pick up carbon fairly quickly. I clean with C4 and nylon brush as soon as I get home. Normal session is 30-50 rounds. After C4 I patch out with alcohol and then I put a 50/50 mix of Hoppes No 9 and Penetrene (can't find Kroil in Aust) into the barrel and leave it soak overnight or a few days. Follow up with more of the Hoppes/Penetrene and bronze brush the next day. Borescope shows some carbon remains but it shoots fine and no carbon ring develops.

Would clean much better and faster if you began bronze brushes in your routine vs nylon. There are some on here who believe that nylon can abrade steel worse than bronze (doubtful that bronze brush could abrade 30 RC 416R barrel steel). I’ve never abraded any of my premium barrels (over 40 custom barrels) and I brush every cleaning and brush a lot.

Nylon brushes I use for inside case necks to polish the carbon during brass prep. VFG Cleaninh Pellets (their intense pellet with bronze woven into it) are also good for carbon removal…especially with some Iosso, KG2, or Flitz Bore Cleaner liquid on the pellets (NOT Flitz Polish as that paste may be more abrasive than their Bore Cleaner). Even as much as I bronze brush my barrels, after about 250-300 rounds I get that glazed carbon build up at throat forward 4-6” of breech section of bore. I get that out using Iosso, etc. if you used an abrasive every so often you may can get away with nylon brushing. But my comment that nylon can abrade steel worse than bronze is worth looking into.

I know this, I went through a phase of no bronze brushes and my barrels went to crap with hard carbon buildup and high pressures from it. After my no brush experiment I had a helluva time removing hard carbon from several barrels. I won’t go without bronze brushing again.

If you don’t check your bores using a bore scope then you have no way to know the condition of your bores. Teslong is the best $100 you could spend in this game. I use mine to evaluate cleaning results, to monitor fire cracking as barrel ages, and to closely inspect new barrel blanks before I give them to my gunsmith to chamber.

 

[JFrank]

A very smart gunsmith told me years ago everyone worries about the wrong end of the barrel. He said the last 10 inches is where it's at. I have come to agree with that.

Interesting, I’ve never had any carbon build up towards the muzzle although I’ve seen plenty of copper fouling down there.

 

[DShortt]

There are also lots of rules/ opinions given as absolutes based on money to be made.

I agree. A borescope and targets don't lie. That's what I judge things on.

 

[JBT47]

Just for fun and curiosity, is there a consensus that, no matter what solvents might be used, or the cleaning regimen used, you cannot adequately clean a rifle barrel without scrubbing the ever lovin’ hell out of it with a metal brush?

Ask what most benchresters (LR & SR) do re: whether to bronze brushing again or not? There are quite a few really good BR competitors on this site. I suspect if you ask them the majority will tell you that you gotta bronze brushing again your barrels or carbon will be a problem. I suspect a few will say they don’t brush and have their own way to deal with carbon. Most will say they use an abrasive often.

 

[DShortt]

Would clean much better and faster if you began bronze brushes in your routine vs nylon. There are some on here who believe that nylon can abrade steel worse than bronze (doubtful that bronze brush could abrade 30 RC 416R barrel steel). I’ve never abraded any of my premium barrels (over 40 custom barrels) and I brush every cleaning and brush a lot.

Nylon brushes I use for inside case necks to polish the carbon during brass prep. VFG Cleaninh Pellets (their intense pellet with bronze woven into it) are also good for carbon removal…especially with some Iosso, KG2, or Flitz Bore Cleaner liquid on the pellets (NOT Flitz Polish as that paste may be more abrasive than their Bore Cleaner). Even as much as I bronze brush my barrels, after about 250-300 rounds I get that glazed carbon build up at throat forward 4-6” of breech section of bore. I get that out using Iosso, etc. if you used an abrasive every so often you may can get away with nylon brushing. But my comment that nylon can abrade steel worse than bronze is worth looking into.

I know this, I went through a phase of no bronze brushes and my barrels went to crap with hard carbon buildup and high pressures from it. After my no brush experiment I had a helluva time removing hard carbon from several barrels. I won’t go without bronze brushing again.

If you don’t check your bores using a bore scope then you have no way to know the condition of your bores. Teslong is the best $100 you could spend in this game. I use mine to evaluate cleaning results, to monitor fire cracking as barrel ages, and to closely inspect new barrel blanks before I give them to my gunsmith to chamber.

I've slugged every barrel blank I bought since I learned how. That's an interesting experience, and there's no telling what you might find.

 

[JFrank]

Just for fun and curiosity, is there a consensus that, no matter what solvents might be used, or the cleaning regimen used, you cannot adequately clean a rifle barrel without scrubbing the ever lovin’ hell out of it with a metal brush?

I’ve probably tried every gun cleaning product sold along with every type of brush, I prefer not to scrub 250 passes with a bronze brush down a $850 barrel job. Post #30
Carbon stains won’t hurt accuracy, hard build up will eventually need to be cleaned out

 

[marchx]

Try ballistol. Der Führer used to drink it.