C4...working?

[Steve Donlon]

A friend gave me a Savage 223 bolt action rifle that has chatter marks in the rifling grooves and it really collects carbon and copper. The C4 and the copper remover work great. With a bronze or nylon brush. The Montana Extreme nylon brushes are a very tight fit so I have to use a Bore Tech with a coated steel cleaning rod because a Tipton rod will just bend. With a tight fitting bronze brush the carbon comes out with a little effort. Same with the copper remover. I use a 243 /6mm Bore Tech nylon brush for the 223 bore. A 223 brush is way to loose. Just use the Tipton rods for patches.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I decided to try C4. Back at 600rds, I hit it with JB. I got really clean, but I don't care to make JB a routine. It took 30 rds to get my accuracy back.
So now at 750 rds, I tried the C4.

After a normal cleaning with Wipe Out, I followed the C4 instructions.
I scoped it first and saw the black carbon in the groves. After using the C4, it looks worse! I followed up with another Wipe Out cleaning. Still black.

Do I just have to keep doing it until it's clean? I'm assuming the C4 only loosened the carbon up some, and the subsequent Wipe Out failed to get the rest out.

Could use some advice.
Thanks.

Your problem is shooting 750 rounds before cleaning. If you are gonna do that, then cleaning is going to be a chore when you finally get around to it. Each round fired packs the carbon harder and harder. I tested dozens of cleaners and lubes over a 2 yr period and 99% were just hype when it came to hard carbon. At the end of the day, Bore Tech C4 and Iosso and Thorroclean were left standing. Soak 30 min with C4 and it will get under the carbon to break the bond on the steel BUT with 750 rounds thru it you will need a bronze brush. C4 will also SOFTEN copper fouling. The hard diamond carbon underneath of those 750 rounds will need Iosso or thorroclean and work to remove. Get that carbon ring too.
Even in my military career I cleaned my weapon after each use. CLP SUCKS!!

 

[SeabeeKen]

A friend gave me a Savage 223 bolt action rifle that has all the chatter marks in the rifling grooves and it really collects carbon and copper. The C4 and the copper remover work great. With a bronze or nylon brush. The Montana Extreme nylon brushes are a very tight fit so I have to use a Bore Tech with a coated steel cleaning rod because a Tipton rod will just bend. With a tight fitting bronze brush the carbon comes out with a little effort. Same with the copper remover. I use a 243 /6mm Bore Tech nylon brush for the 223 bore. A 223 brush is way to loose. Just use the Tipton rods for patches.

I think I had the same rifle!! Looked like a washboard. Scrapped the barrel. 2 shots and was copper from end to end.

 

[Texas Solo]

Your problem is shooting 750 rounds before cleaning. If you are gonna do that, then cleaning is going to be a chore when you finally get around to it. Each round fired packs the carbon harder and harder. I tested dozens of cleaners and lubes over a 2 yr period and 99% were just hype when it came to hard carbon. At the end of the day, Bore Tech C4 and Iosso and Thorroclean were left standing. Soak 30 min with C4 and it will get under the carbon to break the bond on the steel BUT with 750 rounds thru it you will need a bronze brush. C4 will also SOFTEN copper fouling. The hard diamond carbon underneath of those 750 rounds will need Iosso or thorroclean and work to remove. Get that carbon ring too.
Even in my military career I cleaned my weapon after each use. CLP SUCKS!!

Had you read my post, you would know that I DID NOT wait for 750rds before cleaning. Rifle is cleaned with WipeOut after every use. But WipeOut does not remove carbon.

 

[jelenko]

Had you read my post, you would know that I DID NOT wait for 750rds before cleaning. Rifle is cleaned with WipeOut after every use. But WipeOut does not remove carbon.

I'm not seeing anything in your about cleaning after every use.

Please show me where it does:

Here's the first part of your post:

I decided to try C4. Back at 600rds, I hit it with JB. I got really clean, but I don't care to make JB a routine. It took 30 rds to get my accuracy back.​

So now at 750 rds, I tried the C4.​

​

After a normal cleaning with Wipe Out, I followed the C4 instructions.​

I scoped it first and saw the black carbon in the groves. After using the C4, it looks worse! I followed up with another Wipe Out cleaning. Still black.​

 

[Texas Solo]

I'm not seeing anything in your about cleaning after every use.

Please show me where it does:

Here's the first part of your post:

I decided to try C4. Back at 600rds, I hit it with JB. I got really clean, but I don't care to make JB a routine. It took 30 rds to get my accuracy back.​

So now at 750 rds, I tried the C4.​

​

After a normal cleaning with Wipe Out, I followed the C4 instructions.​

I scoped it first and saw the black carbon in the groves. After using the C4, it looks worse! I followed up with another Wipe Out cleaning. Still black.​

"Back at 600rds" does not mean it hadn't been cleaned during those 600rds. It's simply a time reference.

You got nothing better to do?

 

[Dgd6mm]

I decided to try C4. Back at 600rds, I hit it with JB. I got really clean, but I don't care to make JB a routine. It took 30 rds to get my accuracy back.
So now at 750 rds, I tried the C4.

After a normal cleaning with Wipe Out, I followed the C4 instructions.
I scoped it first and saw the black carbon in the groves. After using the C4, it looks worse! I followed up with another Wipe Out cleaning. Still black.

Do I just have to keep doing it until it's clean? I'm assuming the C4 only loosened the carbon up some, and the subsequent Wipe Out failed to get the rest out.

Could use some advice.
Thanks.

I have time to do many things. I get it, you've been cleaning your barrel from the get go, you just hadn't been cleaning it properly to keep the carbon out.
It's OK, we all live and learn...I've been there and done that. I did practically the same, except I ran Wipeout in my barrel nylon brushed it out...Until I blew bullets up in a f class match. This was at about 750 rounds and the bullet was a 115 DTAC in a 6mm Competition Match barrel. My buddy was shooting the same cartridge with the same everything like mine, from cleaning all the way down to round count. These barrels were sisters. My buddy blew bullets up that day also. Gmac borescoped it for me and I cleaned mine down to bare metal, polished the throat and never blew another bullet up. I learned alot about cleaning and changed my procedure. My buddy however decided that he still didn't want to put a brass brush in his Kreiger barrel, until after the following match where he blew up bullets and I didn't. We both clean throughly and have since.
1 more thing my borescope is used regularly these days.

 

[jelenko]

"Back at 600rds" does not mean it hadn't been cleaned during those 600rds. It's simply a time reference.

You got nothing better to do?

Well, you took your time to criticize SeeBeeKen that he hadn't read your post. I read your post. No way is it clear that you cleaned the barrel after every use.

 

[david12601]

I had an old 244 ackley barrel sitting under the bench and my neighbor who owns a restaurant gave me some cleaner called discovery carbon remover for my grill and smoker last summer so I decided to try it in that old barrel.......I was amazed at how clean it got with minimal brushing .....I left it in for maybe 4 hours......going to try it in another barrel when the weather gets good enough to shoot ...I will follow up then

 

[Texas Solo]

C4 is clear out of the bottle. After plugging my chamber and letting C4 soak for awhile, should it still be clear when poured out?
Seems like it should be darker colored to me.

 

[DShortt]

Well, I would say whatever is in your barrel that you're trying to remove, C4 isn't touching it.

 

[Texas Solo]

Trying to remove Carbon.

 

[DShortt]

I've not been impressed with it at all. Others will likely disagree.

 

[Bill Norris]

Trying to remove Carbon.

Yea, most of the cleaners we use tend to need some scrubbing with a brush to help along the way of breaking carbon down.

 

[snert]

C4...dark putty color, then Bright Orange...but if you are close you won't remember that!

Joking aside, sounds like it isn't breaking carbon down.

 

[Murray Brook]

What I have found is that all products are poor at removing hard carbon other than an abrasive on a bronze/nylon brush along with elbow grease. JMO

 

[Texas Solo]

Yea, most of the cleaners we use tend to need some scrubbing with a brush to help along the way of breaking carbon down.

I know it needs brushing, but I'm referring to the raw liquid that's poured out before the bushing

 

[DShortt]

If you're looking for something that will remove carbon deposits left behind after a really thorough brushing, it will be something abrasive or mechanical.
No solvent will dissolve that stuff.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I've not tried it the way you're doing it but is it possible that after you plug the chamber you don't have enough C4 to fill the chamber and several inches of the bore?

When I use C4 I first remove powder fouling with Butches then do one or two applications of Eliminator to remove some copper, then do applications of C4. When I run the first couple wet patches of C4 down the bore there will be some brown/black color on the patch. This is carbon.

When I say application I do the following:

Eliminator -- run two wet patches with Eliminator down the bore. Saturate a nylon brush with Eliminator and push through the bore 10 to 20 times. Let sit for 5 minutes. Run three dry patches down the bore. Then run two saturated patches down the bore. Set rifle aside for 12 to 24 hours . Repeat if necessary.

C4 -- run two wet patches with C4 down the bore. Saturate a bronze brush with C4 and push through the bore. Remove the bronze brush before pulling cleaning rod back. Reattach the bronze brush and push through the bore again. Do this 10 times. Let sit for 5 minutes. Run three dry patches down the bore. Then run two saturated patches down the bore. Set rifle aside for 12 to 24 hours . Repeat if necessary

This approach will remove the carbon ring around the neck and freebore area. There will still be some sort of black layer in the bore. At this point I'm thinking this is a very thin layer of carbon that doesn't hurt being there.

 

[DShortt]

So.....

Is it the Eliminator, C4, the brushing, or the dry patching that's cleaning your bore?

And do you use a bore scope, or just quit when the dry patches are clean?