I have a question that you guys will probably laugh at me about but I am a new F/TR shooter and have to start somewhere even if my questions are of the newbie variety. I have reloaded hunting loads for years with standard RCBS dies. I am planning to purchase a precision die set for my F/TR shooting. I notice that most all dies can be purchased as Non-Bushing FL Resizing Dies OR Bushing FL Resizing Dies. I am not sure I know the difference or what I should purchase. I called a very well known high end die maker and was told that they sell more Bushing dies to competitive shooters but that their employees who shoot competitively mainly use Non-Bushing dies. Needless to say I am confused. I have ordered a precision reloading book but it hasn't arrived yet. Sorry for the very basic question!
Bushing vs. Non-Bushing FL Resizing Dies?
- Thread starter Gun Guy
- Start date
There are more experienced guys out there and I hope they correct me if I'm wrong
Non-Bushing dies, I used them before.......
however I realized quickly that this would not help me. And a lot of guys use custom made dies and I guess that this would be consider Non-Bushing dies as well. ???
???
The non bushing dies have a fix diameter that said brass wall thickness can be different and if you work with a non bushing die you can't control the neck tension. Developing a load is fine tuning and one of the steps is also to play with the neck tension. That is not possible without Non-Bushing dies. I have right now in my setup a .001 neck tension.
The other thing is how much does the neck expand? I think (guys correct me here as well if I'm wrong) if you try to resize the diameter and it is bigger then ".006 .008 ?" it would result in inconsistencies that you don't want. A lot of guys that I know do FL size with one bushing and then the last neck sizing with an other bushing.
Hope that helps
Non-Bushing dies, I used them before.......
however I realized quickly that this would not help me. And a lot of guys use custom made dies and I guess that this would be consider Non-Bushing dies as well. ???
???The non bushing dies have a fix diameter that said brass wall thickness can be different and if you work with a non bushing die you can't control the neck tension. Developing a load is fine tuning and one of the steps is also to play with the neck tension. That is not possible without Non-Bushing dies. I have right now in my setup a .001 neck tension.
The other thing is how much does the neck expand? I think (guys correct me here as well if I'm wrong) if you try to resize the diameter and it is bigger then ".006 .008 ?" it would result in inconsistencies that you don't want. A lot of guys that I know do FL size with one bushing and then the last neck sizing with an other bushing.
Hope that helps
Your question is a very good question indeed.. There are 3 "basic" types of dies: 1.) Bushing dies; 2.) Non-bushing dies and 3.) Non-bushing dies that are honed out to the exact specs you want. Those are the ones I prefer. Forster and Whidden (if you request it done) will do the honing for your dies. With a .308 (Shooting F-T/R) there is a wealth of information on the reamer you want, the neck wall thickness desired and the chamber clearance around the neck that is likely best for the 308. In other words, you should be able to tell EXACTLY where you need to hone out the Non-Bushing die you need. It is the same "formula", if you will, as using a bushing type die, you simply have the Non-Bushing die honed to where the size of the bushing you would order for a bushing style die. I hope this clears things up a tad bit clearer than mud!
Non bushing FL dies will reduce the case neck diameter way more than is necessary, to account for those who may be using thinner than normal brass neck wall thicknesses. That's the reason the expander button then must be used to open up the inside neck diameter to the proper diameter, the same diameter that will be arrived at, without oversizing when using neck bushing dies.
Simply put, the brass is being overworked and the chance of case neck splits increases, with non bushing dies.
Bullet neck tension can also have an effect on velocity, ES and SD numbers, and group size. I'll be the one to decide how much neck tension I want on my loaded rounds, not the die maker.
Your choice if you want to use adjustable neck bushing dies, or FL dies that have been custom honed to a fixed diameter. Both systems work fine.
I've never bought a set of "regular" FL sizing dies since 1998 when I began shooting benchrest cartridges. Now they are used for all cartridges, benchrest or not. Welcome to the 21 st. Century.
Simply put, the brass is being overworked and the chance of case neck splits increases, with non bushing dies.
Bullet neck tension can also have an effect on velocity, ES and SD numbers, and group size. I'll be the one to decide how much neck tension I want on my loaded rounds, not the die maker.
Your choice if you want to use adjustable neck bushing dies, or FL dies that have been custom honed to a fixed diameter. Both systems work fine.
I've never bought a set of "regular" FL sizing dies since 1998 when I began shooting benchrest cartridges. Now they are used for all cartridges, benchrest or not. Welcome to the 21 st. Century.
Dave is this a custom chamber and aftermarket barrel? This should factor in also
that is what I shoot. My fired cases come out 0.342" Most of the experts here say to use a Redding body die and a Lee Collet Die to size the necks. This would be a good way to go to start with. I have both style dies you called about today and although have not tested the benefits on target yet, I like the feel of the FL bushing die(with a 335 bushing). It sizes my cases less and I feel better about this. The standard die(to me) works the snot out of the brass.
Runout on these rounds are right at 1.5 thous or 1 thous. Can't argue with that and the quality of his dies
Runout on these rounds are right at 1.5 thous or 1 thous. Can't argue with that and the quality of his dies
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