Bullet seating force is very rough

[dgeesaman]

I have a 6PPC-USA Sako and I’m seating Berger FB bullets in Norma brass. I’m not tumbling or brushing so the case necks have a layer of carbon. The brass is fired 7x at moderate loads and .0015 of neck tension. K&M in-line press and Neil Jones inline seater.

When seating bullets, many of them are grabbing or hanging up somehow brass so that it takes extra press force to get that bullet to move. It makes a click or pop sound and the bullet snaps down into place. Others just advance steadily into the press fit, which I assume is normal.

I expect this is a newbie error, what should I be doing?

 

[johara1]

what does the sized case measure on the outside of the neck before you seat a bullet? and after you seat it. measure it at the pressure ring area of the neck... jim

 

[Jet]

Did they seat fine on the first 1-6 times they've been loaded?

The Norma PPC brass I've used has held up past 7 firings without annealing with no problems.

Can you drop a bullet into the case neck prior to sizing with little to no friction?

Are you certain you are only neck sizing .0015?

 

[nmkid]

Probably time to anneal.

 

[jds holler]

Is the bullet long enough that you may be encountering a donut at the neck/shoulder junction?? jd

 

[AlNyhus]

From your description, it sounds like the seating issue is as the bullet enters the case neck?

If so, make sure the case necks have a nice inside chamfer. Even if you've done this in the past, the chamfer tends to disappear as the cases are fired multiple times. After chamfering, run a bronze bristle brush into the necks to remove any slight edge that the tool leaves behind.

If the bullet is hanging up further down the neck length....how much of the length of the neck are you sizing? If you're not sizing below where the base of the bullet ends up after seating, this can give you the hard seating effort you describe.

 

[LVLAaron]

Are the necks chamfered?

 

[rwj]

In addition to the above suggestions... the carbon layer is “balling up” and galling the bullet, and/or the bullet is misaligned with the case neck during seating. Remove the bullet the next time one seats roughly and visually inspect the contact surfaces.

 

[Clancy]

VLD chamfer, anneal and while I like the carbon I run an oversized nylon brush into each neck every firing to clear debris.

They may take a firing to get back to shooting .1s after the annealing but since it’s a PPC I’m assuming you have 40-50 cases max so not a huge deal.

 

[dgeesaman]

You’ve given me some great things to look at, and it will be a few days until I can fire these groups and confirm brass details.

I can mention that these Sakos have a long throat and 14” twist so I can’t use long bullets and if I seat a bullet to touch the lands, I have less than 1/8” of engagement in the neck.

It’s not the first time I’ve experienced this, but it could be related to brass hardness. I went down .001 on the bushing size this time to compensate. The neck bushing is in a Harrell’s die so depth is not directly adjustable.

I do neck chamfer and did so after trimming a couple of firings ago, but I think it’s a small chamfer. I don’t suspect this is the problem because it didn’t just grab at the start of seating.

I’m not cleaning carbon now but next time I will pull the bullets and inspect for adhesion. This time I was seating per the Berger Seating test and maybe the deeper engagements are hitting a donut or extra carbon. I will look into that.

I was reading elsewhere that maybe moly powder would be a good idea, but adding that extra step is my last resort.

Thanks again and I’ll be back next week.

 

[Webster]

I have a 6PPC-USA Sako and I’m seating Berger FB bullets in Norma brass. I’m not tumbling or brushing so the case necks have a layer of carbon. The brass is fired 7x at moderate loads and .0015 of neck tension. K&M in-line press and Neil Jones inline seater.

When seating bullets, many of them are grabbing or hanging up somehow brass so that it takes extra press force to get that bullet to move. It makes a click or pop sound and the bullet snaps down into place. Others just advance steadily into the press fit, which I assume is normal.

I expect this is a newbie error, what should I be doing?

I don't understand the reason but BT bullets usually seated easier than flat base. They both have a radius on the back. The only thing I can think of is they are not sitting straight in the neck when the pushing starts the neck then forces them to follow the i.d. of the neck??? I use a Wilson straight line seater and don't remember having problems in recent years. Set the bullet as straight as possible on the neck before you "force" it in and see if it helps.

 

[AlNyhus]

I don't understand the reason but BT bullets usually seated easier than flat base. They both have a radius on the back.

A flat based bullet will have a 'pressure ring' at the base. These can be barely measurable (.0001) to fairly pronounced (.0004). A quality, hand held 'tenths' micrometer will be needed to show this.

 

[Chuckhunter]

I agree with JDS, if some are going smooth and then others grab and you then apply more force and then they jump or pop slightly, you have some cases with donuts. Groups can really suffer because of this and they should be removed.

 

[johara1]

I agree with JDS, if some are going smooth and then others grab and you then apply more force and then they jump or pop slightly, you have some cases with donuts. Groups can really suffer because of this and they should be removed.

I really doubt if a 68 gr. flat base bullet could reach the donut in a PPC unless he had no free bore. He is very vague and doesn't answer questions, so we are just guessing and making assumptions I just checked my PPC. with a .060 fb.and it would have to be seated a .150 deeper for a 68 gr. flat base to touch the donut.... jim

 

[LCazador]

You’ve given me some great things to look at, and it will be a few days until I can fire these groups and confirm brass details.

I can mention that these Sakos have a long throat and 14” twist so I can’t use long bullets and if I seat a bullet to touch the lands, I have less than 1/8” of engagement in the neck.

It’s not the first time I’ve experienced this, but it could be related to brass hardness. I went down .001 on the bushing size this time to compensate. The neck bushing is in a Harrell’s die so depth is not directly adjustable.

I do neck chamfer and did so after trimming a couple of firings ago, but I think it’s a small chamfer. I don’t suspect this is the problem because it didn’t just grab at the start of seating.

I’m not cleaning carbon now but next time I will pull the bullets and inspect for adhesion. This time I was seating per the Berger Seating test and maybe the deeper engagements are hitting a donut or extra carbon. I will look into that.

I was reading elsewhere that maybe moly powder would be a good idea, but adding that extra step is my last resort.

Thanks again and I’ll be back next week.

Sounds like you have several different of neck thickness. The thicker ones will require more force while the thinner necks will be OK. I have a Sako 6PPC and I have always started with necks turned.

 

[cw308]

Carbon does act as a lubricant but after 7 times without cleaning the case with a flat base bullet , I think your pushing your luck . So people don't believe in cleaning their barrels until the groups open up . I'm one of those clean freaks , I clean after every firing , clean my brass , wet tumble , chamfer an dry lube the inside of the case necks before seating . Clean , chamfer an dry lube your brass an the problem will go away. No shortcuts in reloading or problems will arise.

 

[johara1]

You’ve given me some great things to look at, and it will be a few days until I can fire these groups and confirm brass details.

I can mention that these Sakos have a long throat and 14” twist so I can’t use long bullets and if I seat a bullet to touch the lands, I have less than 1/8” of engagement in the neck.

It’s not the first time I’ve experienced this, but it could be related to brass hardness. I went down .001 on the bushing size this time to compensate. The neck bushing is in a Harrell’s die so depth is not directly adjustable.

I do neck chamfer and did so after trimming a couple of firings ago, but I think it’s a small chamfer. I don’t suspect this is the problem because it didn’t just grab at the start of seating.

I’m not cleaning carbon now but next time I will pull the bullets and inspect for adhesion. This time I was seating per the Berger Seating test and maybe the deeper engagements are hitting a donut or extra carbon. I will look into that.

I was reading elsewhere that maybe moly powder would be a good idea, but adding that extra step is my last resort.

Thanks again and I’ll be back next week.

use a brush inside the neck a couple of times then try to seat them. If you went down a size on your bushing you created more neck tension, then with what you said about long throat and an 1/8" only holding the bullet there is no way you you are into the donut. jim

 

[dgeesaman]

Sounds like you have several different of neck thickness. The thicker ones will require more force while the thinner necks will be OK. I have a Sako 6PPC and I have always started with necks turned.

The Norma had pretty consistent neck thickness out of the box (uniform within .0005, probably better) and I’m using it specifically because I shouldn’t need to turn them.

I will either check them loaded using my Neco concentricity fixture, or measure the fired brass.

David

 

[dgeesaman]

He is very vague and doesn't answer questions, so we are just guessing and making assumptions

I do have a job, so when I posted this is was not around all day to provide instant follow ups.

I could write a short book on what I’ve done already but Internet experience has shown that going overboard doesn’t really help.

I’m hopeful I can dig into this again over the long weekend.

David

 

[AlNyhus]

I’m hopeful I can dig into this again over the long weekend.David

Great. Let us know what you find, ok?