Force guage for bullet seating

[Jennb]

German Salazar performed a test of seating Dies with results suggesting Redding produced the least runout

That is my result thus far and I have tested quite a few different inline seaters. My RC IV press with my Redding competition is the best so far.

 

[Jennb]

Heresy I say!!!! You KNOW that you must have a Forster Co-Axial press to make competition worthy ammunition. LOL

I still love my RC II that I bought in the 90's.

Somebody forgot to tell me this. LMAO

 

[Ares]

German Salazar performed a test of seating Dies with results suggesting Redding produced the least runout

That being Seating dies from just a few mfg's, with one die of each, and the same press.
Hardly any conclusive evidence of anything . But yes the test is still possible to look up if anyones interested.

 

[JFrank]

^ whatever

 

[Gruntus]

Just resurrecting this thread for any updates.

I have a Forster co-ax press and currently use a Forster micrometer seating die. I wondered if anyone using the same setup has ever considered removing the shell holders and placing a pressure gauge (u force gauge?) under the case whilst seating the bullets? (*I hope that makes sense?)

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Just resurrecting this thread for any updates.

I have a Forster co-ax press and currently use a Forster micrometer seating die. I wondered if anyone using the same setup has ever considered removing the shell holders and placing a pressure gauge (u force gauge?) under the case whilst seating the bullets? (*I hope that makes sense?)

That would work. Let us know when you get one done

 

[mikecr]

Been done: https://www.shootingsoftware.com/recoil.htm

 

[memilanuk]

If only it was still available... on modern software platforms...

 

[mchees1]

I really like that however I can't help but think that the ram on the press would need to be hydraulically operated using a system with a steady output flow is necessary to get clean data. A flow control valve before the ram and a limit switch and to bypass the ram when it is at full seating extension would complete the system. Noisy data is why I have always shied away from a arbor press with a force gage of any sort. Its impossible to precisely and accurately measure force unless the force is applied is steady and consistent. Inconsistent force will equal inconsistent readings. Too hard to separate the data from the chaff. Your load cell coupled with a small hydraulic system that could clean up 99% of the noise would give some clean data to analyze. It would be moderately pricey so you would have to ask yourself if the results would be worth the cost and effort unless you just like to tinker

Small pump, accumulator, a couple of 3 way valves, pressure control module and flow control valve and a limit switch with someone who has Arduino skills

edit - damn I over complicated that didn't I - a gear motor and a limit switch would be easier. So unless bidding on a government contract keep it simple

edit 2 - instead of a load cell measure the power draw on the gearmotor. I really think someone could manufacture and sell something at that could give some fairly accurate and precise data at a cost effective price. Certainly less than 1000 USD

This prototype from AMP Annealing looks interesting and might address the issues from the many responses:

 

[Gruntus]

This prototype from AMP Annealing looks interesting and might address the issues from the many responses:

I'm also guessing it will be very expensive!

 

[PatMiles]

I'm also guessing it will be very expensive!

Only one way to find out...stay tuned boys and girls!

 

[Ccrider]

This prototype from AMP Annealing looks interesting and might address the issues from the many responses:

Interesting. Don’t know how useful. Would have been more informative if they had used twice fired unannealed brass as a comparison since they were comparing twice fired annealed brass. Why they chose to compare 4 time fired unannealed brass to twice fired annealed brass may tell us something.

 

[WIB3]

Most if not all competitive Benchrest shooters use a custom inline bullet seater purchased as a blank and reamed with the same chamber reamer used for their chamber. Runout should not be a problem. All are being used with some sort of arbor press. There are those who say that consistent seating is not that important and the release force is the key. I believe that they go hand in hand. There are those who will say that they can seat by feel. I say good for them. My old is not that accurate anymore. Some will say using a pressure or force gauge takes too much time. My question is how much extra time does it take to seat a bullet, watch the gauge and write the number on the side of the case. For those of you that think neck tension is not that important, next season in a match, load half of your records with one bushing and the other half .001” smaller. Please let me know how you make out.

 

[WIB3]

I use a modified 21 Century. The pressure gauge has been replaced with a 0-15psi.(more graduation) I sort all of my record rounds for 1000yd Benchrest by the pressure. Cases change match to match. I have no set 10 record cases that I use match to match. I lube the inside of me necks by dipping them into liquid graphite. I has worked for me.

 

[Bogusname]

It’s never ending. I’ve always had fun shooting. I’m not retired with an endless budget. But I will say start with good basics- Brass, bullets.....practice.... shoot your rifle and learn it. You will be amazed ! A good barrel fitter chambered also.

 

[Gruntus]

That would work. Let us know when you get one done

So I managed to find someone that makes them!!

Will let you know how it works with my Co-Ax press once I have received it.

G

 

[tarzan]

weld a 1/4 inch socket to lever and use a ounce dial torque wrench thought about it but I can feel when they are tight or loose so I just anneal and call it good

 

[dttheliman]

Whew .... AMP take my money!!!!! cool Ill get one (so I can just brag about having one ) , however a comment on the video that @Gruntus posted , y'all can clearly see from the results with the guy using a manual ram, he couldn't produce the same force twice on the down stroke with an empty die - so basically the results are meaningless other than "yes you are applying some force", while the AMP uses a controlled force with their motorized press, unless of course you get your arm calibrated, but therein lies the dilemma right arm / left arm / both ? what happens if your kids help you?

 

[Ned Ludd]

Whew .... AMP take my money!!!!! cool Ill get one (so I can just brag about having one ) , however a comment on the video that @Gruntus posted , y'all can clearly see from the results with the guy using a manual ram, he couldn't produce the same force twice on the down stroke with an empty die - so basically the results are meaningless other than "yes you are applying some force", while the AMP uses a controlled force with their motorized press, unless of course you get your arm calibrated, but therein lies the dilemma right arm / left arm / both ? what happens if your kids help you?

And of course, once you have the seating force setup working, then you'd like to correlate differences in measured seating force with changes in velocity and/or on the target, which may be even more difficult.

Nonetheless, people designing, producing, and testing such ideas and approaches is how the shooting sports progress, so I'm all for it if someone has an interest in trying something new. The downside to that is that when/if that "something" appears to offer some benefit in the reloading process, of course I'm going to want one, and then my $$$ flies right out the window...again.

 

[dttheliman]

And of course, once you have the seating force setup working, then you'd like to correlate differences in measured seating force with changes in velocity and/or on the target, which may be even more difficult.

Nonetheless, people designing, producing, and testing such ideas and approaches is how the shooting sports progress, so I'm all for it if someone has an interest in trying something new. The downside to that is that when/if that "something" appears to offer some benefit in the reloading process, of course I'm going to want one, and then my $$$ flies right out the window...again.

Absolutely agreed - my Point is that AMP have almost got it there, where it would in my mind, be a viable tool - what can we do but stay up there with the latest and greatest, only downside it that they showed it off with the most hipster of hipster cartridges, so the real question then becomes - do I grow a barrista bun, get skinny jeans and a 6.5 creednomoor - my old ass says mmm nope rather get the AMP on my bench