Bullet for Gas Gun - 300 Yards

[Pres100]

Agree with the recommendation of RL15 around 24,0 gr with a 77 ... good combo and have shot thousands of those.

At 300 and no wind I have found that 52gr HPBT was the best shooting in my service rifle. Either are capable of cleaning the target at 300 regularly.

 

[RegionRat]

@Pres100 brings up a good point... you can use lighter loads at the 200/300 on calm days with less wear and tear or expense, with the only burden being you have some logistics with keeping alternate ammo and dope. Because SR is shot at known distances, those are small burdens.

Especially in times where there are shortages in bullet choices, you can shoot what you have. There is no doubt you will suffer in wind, but you can save the 77s for those days if you are short on supplies. A good quality bbl chambered by a skilled smith will throw most junk bullets inside the 10 or even the X at 200, so you can conserve your good ones for matches.

 

[Bully]

So I finally got the rifle built and out to the range.
The bullets I have (77 Nosler CC) do NOT like being just off the lands. I came home and have now pushed the rest of the 90 or so bullets back in the case to magazine length.
Not a big deal. This is the fun part of reloading; trying to think through the issues presented.
I did bring some factory loads as well. They shot relatively well. Some 55grain, some 62grain Tactical, and some 69grain match.
I had some issues with the rifle as well, but nothing outstanding. Just working the bugs out. All in all, I think with a little work this will shoot.
Gratuitous rifle pic to follow.

 

[Bully]

Here she is.

 

[Pres100]

Looks Great..... 223 bullets seem to be getting a little easier to find in spurts. If you can pick up some 50-53 gr I would give them a try for the shorter ranges of 2-300 yds .... many 223's really seems to like that range of bullets with the right powders

 

[Bully]

Shot again yesterday. Put another 45 rounds down range. Mostly just to get used to shooting a gas gun again. It's been a long while and I've never shot one for precision.

The Nosler 77 CC's did much better set to mag length. I was single round loading anyway but did shoot 2 mags worth of them (20 rounds) for funsies. Everything shot well and I was able to hit what I was aiming at. I had a lot of vertical dispersion, not a lot of horizontal. I'm hoping that with some serious development with the Sierra 77MK's I can alleviate that to a large degree.

I have 50 rounds of the 77CC's to blow off and form the brass to my chamber and then it's to the annealer and get them loaded up.

@Pres100 I do have some of the lighter bullets that I'll load up for fun. I don't have enough to do any serious work with. What powders do you suggest with that weight range?

 

[stosh]

Have a RRA varmint barrel wilde chamber I bought for P-Dog hunting. It has a 9tw barrel but shoots 50gr VMAX with 25.5 H335 into 1/2" all day and has survived several dog trips and many groundhog hunts. It's deadly out to 300! The gun would shoot farther but only have 4-14 x scope and the old eyes ain't what they used to be!

 

[RegionRat]

@Bully Do you have any Varget or RE15?

 

[Bully]

@Bully Do you have any Varget or RE15?

Varget, yes.

 

[Pres100]

@Pres100 I do have some of the lighter bullets that I'll load up for fun. I don't have enough to do any serious work with. What powders do you suggest with that weight range?

Man - there's a ton of good powders for the 50gr class 223 bullets. I shoot a lot of 50 gr max, 52 HPBT, 53 VMAX and 55 Vmax . CFE223, H322, AR comp, Tac all come to mind and shoot very well.

Although it's not listed very often, I have also had great luck with AA2230 with lighter bullets - generally it supposed to be better with heavier like the 77's

 

[hockeyref]

Lots of good advice here, but don't over think it, you can mess with the longer single load bullets later. Just load the 77's over 24gr Varget @ mag length and load the 69's over 24.5gr varget @ mag length and go shoot. Either load should be good for 2" 10 shot groups at 300 yards rested\bipod if you do your part. For me 69's shot tighter groups by about a half MOA but the 77's fared better when the wind showed up mid string.

I've shot 52 SMK, 60 Sierra flat base, 69 SMK, 77 SMK, 80 SMK, 73 LTB Berger, 80 vld Berger, 80 Nosler CC, 75 Hdy Amax, 68 Hdy match, 90 JLK all over 23.5 to 25 grains of one of these powders AA2520, AA2230, varget, IMR4895, WW748, RE15. The sweet spot is usually around 24 grains....... lighter bullets can go heavier on the powder charge, but for 300 yards I wouldn't waste powder & primers on anything under 68gr and would likely just load the 77's at mag length over 24.2 gr Varget cuz you have it and it's a standard accuracy load for 200 and 300 yard service rifle.

If you can get some 80's, load them .020" off the lands with the same charge of Varget and go shoot. OR if you want to test, load 5 touching, 5 .010" off, and 5 .020" off and see what shoots best. Same for the 75 ELDM (Grafs & Sons had them in stock yesterday).

Just saw the pic of the rifle. Don't worry about forming the brass to your chamber, its an autoloader and brass should be full length resized and bump back the shoulder two or three thou for functionality.....

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Since this is an 8tw I'll assume it's likely throated fairly long-ish for the heavier bullets so the lighter and shorter bullets will be jumping quite a ways to the lands. Doesn't mean the lighter/shorter bullets won't shoot well but when looking for the best accuracy they may not be your best choice.

Always found that the Sierra 55g HP's shoot well in longish free bore.

 

[SmallFunGroups]

My 1:8tw 223 wylde Criterion barrel (20") seems to love the 62gr Hornady BTHP with IMR 8208 XBR. I like this bullet for practice, as it is 1/3 less cost compared to match grade 77gr bullets. Using Lapua brass and FED AR Match primers gets sub 10 standard deviations. FED AR Match was hard to get for over a year, been using cci 41 due to component shortage madness. Right now, I am pushing the 62gr BTHP using lake city brass and cci41 primers at 300yds with less than 2" of vertical spread @ 24.9grs. Works great on days with mild wind. Heavy 77gr bullets are handy on windy days.

62gr Hornady BTHP
LC brass
Cci41 primer
2.255-2.250 COAL works best for me
24.9grs IMR 8208 XBR or 25grs Varget or Shooters World Precision. 24.1grs Benchmark looks good so far at 100yds.

77gr Sierra Matchking BTHP
LC brass
Cci41
2.26 COAL
23.1grs IMR 8208 XBR. If using FED AR match primers, I get lower SDs and better accuracy when I push past Hodgdon's maximum charge. I get light pressure signs on the brass at 23.2grs/cci41, so I keep it just shy of that. 24grs of Varget is proven to work well, all of my ARs do well with that charge weight.

77gr Nosler Custom Competition
LC brass
Cci41
2.26 COAL
23.2grs IMR 8208

69gr Sierra Matchking BTHP
LC brass
Cci 41
2.26 COAL
24.5 - 24.7grs Varget, also try Shooters World Precision (SWP) in the same range for good results. Bump up a couple tenths with SWP to get the same velocity.

77gr Berger OTM is looking great near max charges of Varget and IMR 8208 XBR. Need to get the seating depth just right to make it shine, still sorting that out.

 

[David Milisock]

I'm nearing the completion of a gas gun.
.223 Wylde
Fims upper/lower
Satern 20" 1:8 w/SOCOM brake
TT trigger
Basically, all the Gucci goodies from there.

My question is: if I want to run this at 300 yards, should I look for a heavy-ish bullet or go light and fast? My current train of thought is that light and fast is the way however there is a spot @200 yards that gets a pretty good crosswind most days. 90*, L to R.
There is one match that I keep promising myself that I will shoot (I work on weekends) and I'd love to be competitive if I show up. It's a belly match, @300 yards, 20 rounds. Some pretty good shooters show up for nothing more than bragging rights.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Hornady 69 grain or heavier. The Wylde has tighter specs than 5.56 but not so tight that it becomes a problem so lighter stuff maybe an issue.

My 223 bolt rifle shoots tighter groups in wind with lighter and faster loads.

 

[garandman]

My 14.5 p&w 1:7 upper likes 69 SMKs over 77 SMKs.

Bottom line: just gotta try 'em

 

[Rtheurer]

I had a lot of vertical dispersion, not a lot of horizontal. I'm hoping that with some serious development with the Sierra 77MK's I can alleviate that to a large degree.

I have 50 rounds of the 77CC's to blow off and form the brass to my chamber and then it's to the annealer and get them loaded up.

I have a Couple of questions for you based off the above highlighted in bold statements above.
Was the Vertical dispersion from the ammo? Or is it from you? Not being a butt here. Its pretty common for me to see guys doing load development at our range with in adequate Bench Techniques and no rear bag. Just because your shooting off a bench doe snot mean that its shooting to the same point of impact. You can ask all of the big dog Bench Rest guys here how important it is to LEARN to shoot off the bench. Most of the time i See folks shooting off a Bypod and either no rear bag or some sock filled with beans and the rifle is moving all over the place. Just something to think about.
Fire forming Brass to your chamber is not really a THING per say in the Gas gun world. It needs to function 100% of the time. So just neck sizing and or pushing the shoulder back a Half Thousandth is not a good way to do that.
Most push the shoulder back .003 and run with it. About what you get from Virgin Brass...give or take.

Keep us posted.

 

[Laurie]

Ok, one for the hive:
77gn SMK and Varget
Jump or no? If yes, how much?
I currently have the die set so they are just off the lands.
I’m just looking for a starting point and don’t want to chase well worn wrong pathways.

My experience of the 77gn SMK (and less so of Berger, Lapua and Nosler equivalents) was firstly in a manually operated AR-15 with a heavy Lilja match barrel and 'modified Wylde' chamber. (Manual AR as I'm in the UK and semi-autos are 'Prohibited Weapons' under our Firearms Acts.); currently in a Savage PTA based F-Class rifle with minimum SAAMI chamber and considerably longer FB than Wylde (but not as long as the PT&G ISSF 0.169"FB most 223 F-Class rifles are chambered in). I mostly used the AR in single-shot mode with a Bob Sled and over-magazine length COALs.

In either rifle, jump seems to barely matter with this bullet so far a group sizes go - they shoot equally well at 2.25 or just short of the lands. (I can't remember off the top what the single-shot COAL was in the AR; in the F rifle it's a shade under 2.400".) The main change between the two settings was that the longer COAL allows more powder before over much charge compression occurs. This is an issue with the slower burning, bulkier powders including Re15/N203-B and H. VarGet. These bullets are really jump-tolerant!

Recent / current 77 SMKs are very consistent with a maximum of 0.004" BTO variations, but what I do find is that BTO varies between production lots by as much as 20 thou', so bear in mind you may need to adjust the seater die setting on a new lot if loading to an above SAAMI COAL.

Due to regulatory changes, we no longer receive H4895, VarGet, or any other Hodgdon / ADI 'Extreme' powder on this side of the Atlantic. I'm currently exploring alternative powders for this pair in the F-Class rifle. There are plenty, over 20 potential replacements in fact, despite the loss of most Hodgdon and all older (pre-Enduron) IMR grades.

 

[moorepower]

My experience of the 77gn SMK (and less so of Berger, Lapua and Nosler equivalents) was firstly in a manually operated AR-15 with a heavy Lilja match barrel and 'modified Wylde' chamber. (Manual AR as I'm in the UK and semi-autos are 'Prohibited Weapons' under our Firearms Acts.); currently in a Savage PTA based F-Class rifle with minimum SAAMI chamber and considerably longer FB than Wylde (but not as long as the PT&G ISSF 0.169"FB most 223 F-Class rifles are chambered in). I mostly used the AR in single-shot mode with a Bob Sled and over-magazine length COALs.

In either rifle, jump seems to barely matter with this bullet so far a group sizes go - they shoot equally well at 2.25 or just short of the lands. (I can't remember off the top what the single-shot COAL was in the AR; in the F rifle it's a shade under 2.400".) The main change between the two settings was that the longer COAL allows more powder before over much charge compression occurs. This is an issue with the slower burning, bulkier powders including Re15/N203-B and H. VarGet. These bullets are really jump-tolerant!

Recent / current 77 SMKs are very consistent with a maximum of 0.004" BTO variations, but what I do find is that BTO varies between production lots by as much as 20 thou', so bear in mind you may need to adjust the seater die setting on a new lot if loading to an above SAAMI COAL.

Due to regulatory changes, we no longer receive H4895, VarGet, or any other Hodgdon / ADI 'Extreme' powder on this side of the Atlantic. I'm currently exploring alternative powders for this pair in the F-Class rifle. There are plenty, over 20 potential replacements in fact, despite the loss of most Hodgdon and all older (pre-Enduron) IMR grades.

VV540 performs quite well. You do need to adjust for large temp swings.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

If it hasn't been said already, the Berger 77 gr. Open Tip Match bullet has shot better for me than the 77 gr. SMK or TMK. Also try, some AR-Comp. Great stuff. Johnny's Reloading Bench on YouTube has some great 223 load development videos.

 

[Laurie]

VV540 performs quite well. You do need to adjust for large temp swings.

Yes, N540 will be one of the last extruded grades I'll try, alongside N530. All Viht N500 series powders have been modified over the last two or three years to make them less temperature affected. Whether that has made a noticeable difference, I can't say. (We rarely have large enough temperature variations in the British Isles to cause problems. The only grade I ever had significant issues with was Alliant Re15, also in 223 but with the Berger 90gn VLD, and in an on the limit load.)

Against my expectations, I got excellent results from some ancient N550, which I'd expected to be too slow burning for 77s. This will be handy if it does as well with Berger's 80.5 and 85.5gn designs as I have a lot of this powder left over from the early days of F/TR when I used it in 308 Win with 185/190s.