BR PRIMERS - BETTER THAN STANDARD ?

[Murray Brook]

Bill
Never shot much CCI 400 but shot a good many CCI 450 and Br 4, also a good deal of Fed 205 and 205M. As I poster in an earlier thread the only difference I could see was in the price.

 

[BCR1]

I have a couple bricks of CCI LRP that are monogrammed with a B but I don't think they go bang any better than regular primers.

Bill

 

[bozo699]

I have a couple bricks of CCI LRP that are monogrammed with a B but I don't think they go bang any better than regular primers.

Bill

Just more consistent numbers when testing.
Wayne

 

[JFrank]

Just more consistent numbers when testing.
Wayne

Wayne,
Do you sort primers by weight ?
I find myself not only testing primers side by side on paper but sorting in gram mode.

I may need therapy …

 

[Rocketvapor]

@SPJ,
I sort out the outliers by weight.
I weigh and tare an empty tray, transfer one flat of primers to it and determine an average for that flat of 100.
So far, about 5 flats of Ginex weigh about the same.
I then find the light and heavy outliers, maybe 2 or 3 per flat.
I'll load those that are within +/- 1% of the flat average. (3.390 to 3.460 grains)
One day I'll shoot the light vs the heavy.




WIN 41 Primers

I've got old measurements on BR4, 400, and 450 somewhere.

 

[Laurie]

In the event one primer really does seem to be noticeably better than another, I believe it has more to do with the specific load (i.e. cartridge/powder/bullet weight/etc.) than anything else.

There is no "better" in my opinion. The primer that shoots the best is mostly dependent on how the ignition is set up and what powder your running.

Exactly the conclusions I've arrived at over the years. The more I play around with combinations, the more I believe that small cartridges in particular are very primer-sensitive and primer change can spoil a previously good combination. Sometimes, a load retune will put it right, sometimes not. In the days when I shot 223 Rem long-range FTR with 90s, I found the BR4 increased MVs substantially over my usual mild PMC SR Magnums (the old Russian Murom KVB-5,56), but ruined both groups and ES figures. (Interestingly, the BR4 in my load was also much 'hotter' than the batch of CCI-450s I had at the time which ran counter to most people's views on them.) Reducing the charge reduced MVs, but didn't restore the precision or consistency. The moral is to avoid changing the primer, and if you have to do so because you've run out and can't get any more of your original model, then retest before using in competition.

I'm not alone in this view about small cartridges. Bill Alexander, the Grendel king, did a post in the 65grendel forum years ago on load combinations that usually work to get new users started. He went on to say that having found a promising load, then test every primer in it that you can lay your hands on as the cartridge is very primer-sensitive. Not very helpful advice I know in the current supply and price situation!

I suspect it's not only primer make, but manufacturing lot too. Like everything else, primers do change over the years, or even sometimes between manufacturing lots. This may apply even more so now with producers under such pressure to increase output.

 

[Fuj]

A few of the better shooters got me into sorting. I normally
shoot LRP's in the BR2 flavor. The first time I did this with a
tray of 100, I made 7 piles and found 2 outliers and both were
real lite. Sorting a tray of Federal Champions had piles all over
the map with a good 25% I would call outliers. I did not buy
these for match's, but for fire forming. With the BR2's, I would
average 2 to 3 primers I would cull. The lighest primer of the
BR2 tray, gave me a 35 fps drop in velocity. A sorted pile would
show SD's in the 4's.....

 

[JFrank]

I sort primers in gram mode~ high, med and low with .001 + - and test side by side using ladders to watch the tune come and go. The trick is to have a good cup of coffee while your at it.

 

[HTSmith]

I sort primers in gram mode~ high, med and low with .001 + - and test side by side using ladders to watch the tune come and go. The trick is to have a good cup of coffee while your at it.

Curious to know if you’ve tested heavy primers against light primers?

 

[JFrank]

Curious to know if you’ve tested heavy primers against light primers?

I think we’re talking about that in our next therapy session.
No seriously I have not, I just shoot them in their sorted batches.
Jim

 

[Rocketvapor]

I just collect the outliers for now.
I'll load 70+ or so for a 600 match out of a single flat.
I use the others for plinking, casual practice.

 

[Mulligan]

Curious to know if you’ve tested heavy primers against light primers?

I did a short test back in 2018, see attached pdf.
CW

 

[Rocketvapor]

I saved that pdf. Thanks.

That was +/-2% in primer weight.
When folks sort bullets to less than 1%,
Cases to less than 1%,
Charge weight to less than 1%,
Why not primers to 1% or less?

Some still think primer weight variance is the metal,
just as some think a few grains in case weight is the groove.

 

[Mulligan]

I saved that pdf. Thanks.

That was +/-2% in primer weight.
When folks sort bullets to less than 1%,
Cases to less than 1%,
Charge weight to less than 1%,
Why not primers to 1% or less?

Some still think primer weight variance is the metal,
just as some think a few grains in case weight is the groove.

600 yard target Draw your own conclusions.
For me, I sort.

CW

 

[Rocketvapor]

Well,
You obviously have not centered your NODE or things like that wouldn't matter.

 

[Mulligan]

Well,
You obviously have not centered your NODE or things like that wouldn't matter.

Yep,

One thing I have learned with testing....... If you find the right combination that is more forgiving..... it hides little stuff. Using that combination to test with is akin to lying to yourself. You know its hiding information, so why would you use it to test. Change the seating depth or powder charge to test, that way, the difference is exaggerated and is more easily seen (understandable) on target.

From the peanut gallary.
CW

 

[Rocketvapor]

Even got the wife to sort out 30 primers for her next practice session, 22 Nosgar.
Win 41.
Some more of my "you gonna shoot, you gonna reload" mantra.

 

[Chaotik]

I did a short test back in 2018, see attached pdf.
CW

Thanks for the pdf, Clay.
I have been weight sorting primers (.02gn batches) for a couple of years and believe that it may make a difference.... but no formal testing.

 

[bozo699]

Wayne,
Do you sort primers by weight ?
I find myself not only testing primers side by side on paper but sorting in gram mode.

I may need therapy …

Jim,
I have before but at that time I didn’t notice a discernible difference. But as stated buy other members we weight sort everything else lol. I try to test at the distance I’m shooting and that’s usually 1000 yards, so getting good conditions for an optimal test is difficult where I live. I can test at a 1000 on my own property so that’s nice. Someday when I fully retire I can do more testing on primer sorting.
Wayne

 

[bozo699]

I did a short test back in 2018, see attached pdf.
CW

Thanks Mulligan, very interesting read.
Wayne