BR PRIMERS - BETTER THAN STANDARD ?

[Bill Norris]

While recently blowing out 100 new pcs. of brass for my 6PPC I decided to check the CCI BR-4 against the standard CCI 400 and the CCI 450M. I realize this was probably not the best circumstances to work with but wanted to give it a look anyway since I was not concerned with consistency of other aspects of the loads. Oddly enough, the best group out of the 20 five-shot groups fired was with the Standard 400s and measured .097 for the five shot group. And, to add to oddity the 400s I tested were pulled from a previous load in which I changed my mind on. I guess we could assume that placing more weight on primer choices in further load development could give us a better picture of which primer would fit best with the load.

 

[KMart]

The more I shoot the 400's, the better I like them. They are on the thin side and may give you problems if you don't have your bolt face bushed and an 062 firing pin.

here is a group I shot the other day using 400's In a straight 6br. The outlier was the first shot. The other 4 measured .372. This is at 400 yards.

 

[jimmymac]

Hey Bill. I’ve found no difference in 205’s and 205M’s and have tested a good bit. I also like the CCI 400’s. I bought them on a whim right before the 2020 election and used them extensively in 2021 with no issues in my custom actions. Others have reported pierced primers but I never had that problem with high pressure PPC loads.

Here is a group from the other day with a new barrel. I did a quick seating depth test and ran this one at the end of the session. CCI 400, N133.

 

[Bill Norris]

Good shooting my friend.

 

[Ned Ludd]

In my hands, what may seem to be "better" results from one primer during testing using small sample size (i.e. three- or five-shot groups + the velocity data) often level out with longer strings of fire. In the event one primer really does seem to be noticeably better than another, I believe it has more to do with the specific load (i.e. cartridge/powder/bullet weight/etc.) than anything else. If there is a way to accurately predict in advance which primer (i.e. brisance) will be best for a given load, I am not aware of it. The best we can do is test empirically, just as you did, and then directly compare the results.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever noticed any issues with the [relatively] thinner cup of the 400s? I have known some individuals that experienced some issues with the 400s that went away after they switched to a primer with a thicker cup. However, the issues were likely caused by a firing pin/bolt that needed to be bushed. Once they [eventually] had that done, they never went back to the 400s, so it's not clear to me whether the 400s wouldn't have worked just fine had the firing pin/bolt been bushed at the outset. I'm asking because the 400s are a primer I have not yet tried, and they seem to be available around me fairly regularly. I'm always looking to add yet another primer to the list that I can spend more money on and increase the testing load .

 

[whatsupdoc]

I had my 700's bolt bushed by carlsbad because I got a good deal on CCI400's and
wanted to use them in that rifle. Almost 4K later the 400's have been solid, no issues
and excellent accuracy in that 223.

 

[SKWERLZ]

If you’re running a combination that the 400’s limitation doesn’t become an issue they are really good primers.

 

[Bill Norris]

In my hands, what may seem to be "better" results from one primer during testing using small sample size (i.e. three- or five-shot groups + the velocity data) often level out with longer strings of fire. In the event one primer really does seem to be noticeably better than another, I believe it has more to do with the specific load (i.e. cartridge/powder/bullet weight/etc.) than anything else. If there is a way to accurately predict in advance which primer (i.e. brisance) will be best for a given load, I am not aware of it. The best we can do is test empirically, just as you did, and then directly compare the results.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever noticed any issues with the [relatively] thinner cup of the 400s? I have known some individuals that experienced some issues with the 400s that went away after they switched to a primer with a thicker cup. However, the issues were likely caused by a firing pin/bolt that needed to be bushed. Once they [eventually] had that done, they never went back to the 400s, so it's not clear to me whether the 400s wouldn't have worked just fine had the firing pin/bolt been bushed at the outset. I'm asking because the 400s are a primer I have not yet tried, and they seem to be available around me fairly regularly. I'm always looking to add yet another primer to the list that I can spend more money on and increase the testing load .

Hey Ned, I have not had any issues with any of my rifles so far. Most of my bolts/firing pins are not bushed

 

[ebb]

I was at the LGS years ago when the CCI rep poked his head in the door we asked him what was the difference, he said the BRs got a visual inspection to make sure all had priming compound in the cup. This was many years ago and may not be true anymore.

 

[bozo699]

I was at the LGS years ago when the CCI rep poked his head in the door we asked him what was the difference, he said the BRs got a visual inspection to make sure all had priming compound in the cup. This was many years ago and may not be true anymore.

I don’t know what many years ago is but in 2009 our local sawmill closed down, I was there electrician. I went to work for ATK there were across the river in Idaho. I started shouting 1000 yard benchrest with one of the machinists which became my gunsmith and best friend. As an electrician I worked in every department, I got the spec sheets on all primers made, there are several differences between 400’s and br4’s however there is no difference between Br2’s and 200’s. When testing if the lots are very consistent they get cups with br on them the rest are 200’s
Same thing in Rimfire, std velocity that’s very consistent gets called green tag
Wayne

 

[bozo699]

Hey Ned, I have not had any issues with any of my rifles so far. Most of my bolts/firing pins are not bushed

Bill,
I can’t remember what I used in my ppc I could look through my notes but it’s been too many years ago to recall however I shot 6brx for my 1000 yard rifles, my son started off with a 6br savage I bought off here from Wang243 I rebarreled it in brx it would Pierce the 205’s and 400’s until I had it bushed. In my custom actions I had best results with Br4’s and 450’s however my sons shot best with 205m’s
If the 400’d are working good for you keep using them but there not the same as Br4’s
Wayne

 

[Zero333]

The more I shoot the 400's, the better I like them. They are on the thin side and may give you problems if you don't have your bolt face bushed and an 062 firing pin.

here is a group I shot the other day using 400's In a straight 6br. The outlier was the first shot. The other 4 measured .372. This is at 400 yards.

View attachment 1459793

0.23 moa at 400 yards is awesome !

Great shooting.

And the 4 shots are just under 0.1 moa !! That's just insane at 400 yards !

 

[KMart]

0.23 moa at 400 yards is awesome !

Great shooting.

And the 4 shots are just under 0.1 moa !! That's just insane at 400 yards !

I was just fooling around. I didn't think a 70 gr SMK would hold up that well at 400 and I caught good conditions.

 

[SteveOak]

Hey Bill. I’ve found no difference in 205’s and 205M’s and have tested a good bit. I also like the CCI 400’s. I bought them on a whim right before the 2020 election and used them extensively in 2021 with no issues in my custom actions. Others have reported pierced primers but I never had that problem with high pressure PPC loads.

Here is a group from the other day with a new barrel. I did a quick seating depth test and ran this one at the end of the session. CCI 400, N133.

Reported pierced primer with which primer please?

CCI 400, N133 > 6PPC?

 

[jimmymac]

Reported pierced primer with which primer please?

CCI 400, N133 > 6PPC?

No idea, but the pierced CCI 400 issue has been discussed by others in the past. I’ve had zero issues with them in my custom guns.

 

[MGYSGT]

I shoot 450's because I can't be bothered to have my bolt bushed. Yes I know I should, but before the election (Obummer) I bought 21,000 450's and am very happy shooting them. I am running low on them now.

 

[freebird22/250]

I don’t know what many years ago is but in 2009 our local sawmill closed down, I was there electrician. I went to work for ATK there were across the river in Idaho. I started shouting 1000 yard benchrest with one of the machinists which became my gunsmith and best friend. As an electrician I worked in every department, I got the spec sheets on all primers made, there are several differences between 400’s and br4’s however there is no difference between Br2’s and 200’s. When testing if the lots are very consistent they get cups with br on them the rest are 200’s
Same thing in Rimfire, std velocity that’s very consistent gets called green tag
Wayne

The only noticeable difference between the BR primers and the regular flavors are the tiny stamping BR.

 

[bozo699]

The only noticeable difference between the BR primers and the regular flavors are the tiny stamping BR.

This is true with br2’s not Br4’s the priming mix is different and the 400’s has a .020 cup the br4, 450’s and 41 primers are .025 thick cups
Wayne

 

[JFrank]

This is true with br2’s not Br4’s the priming mix is different and the 400’s has a .020 cup the br4, 450’s and 41 primers are .025 thick cups
Wayne

They all shoot a little different too,

Jim

 

[Alex Wheeler]

There is no "better" in my opinion. The primer that shoots the best is mostly dependent on how the ignition is set up and what powder your running.