Bleiker and Grunig & Elmiger
- Thread starter jbhotrod
- Start date
I have seen both,, if it was my money I would buy the Walther KK500.
Of the two you you mention, there are WAY more bleikers around then G&E on the Smallbore side. I would go bleiker, G&E made theirs overly complicated for no reason.
Of the two you you mention, there are WAY more bleikers around then G&E on the Smallbore side. I would go bleiker, G&E made theirs overly complicated for no reason.
Actually, my rifle has the record now for best consolidated 40 shot group.
10x action with Shilen barrel shot this spring at Tx facility.
Ok I'm confused (what else is new).
How is the record determined? I thought your group was 15.6 in Texas and Baumann's Bleiker group in Stuttgart Germany was 12.4. Do they go by expected ISSF 50m score?
I have the score record, there are others with smaller groups.
We get points on a target for score, not group size although they are closely related.
Of the 40 shots, I had 19 10.8's.
Bleiker make great guns, but you can get as good a groups from a less costly platform if you don't need the stock adjustments for 3p.
I believe that Bleiker use Lilja barrels?
We get points on a target for score, not group size although they are closely related.
Of the 40 shots, I had 19 10.8's.
Bleiker make great guns, but you can get as good a groups from a less costly platform if you don't need the stock adjustments for 3p.
I believe that Bleiker use Lilja barrels?
Here are two Bleikers I just bought: 
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nilebartram
Silver $$ Contributor
Both are excellent rifle and very expensive.
That guy is always talking how great he is. He says things like "If you want to shoot good, you need a blue bucket hat".
IMHO the Bleiker and G&E smallbore rifles are the gold standard. One of the reasons they cost more is the accuracy standards they maintain from the factory - you may get lucky with a Walther or Anschutz, but your odds improve greatly with these manufacturers. The saying "you get what you pay for" is very true here - its up to the individual to decide if that potential advantage is worth it.
I hear people say the G&E is overly complicated - and I would agree for the most part, but I have put virtually hundreds of thousands of rounds thru my Racer without a single issue (I didn't create). It's okay to be complex or complicated if it is actually well designed - and both of these platforms are exceptionally well designed.
It would be great if testing facility records had any meaning at all - they simply don't. The testing methods never mimic real world use, so they are a base line for best lots. Regardless of your discipline (BR or position), the work begins after you make a selection and begin to work with it in your individual rifle. The quality of the platform makes this whole process a whole lot easier - and there's the value of the Bleiker and G&E Racer (especially if you are not a gunsmith, and need something competitive out of the box).
And the term "expensive" is relative. Think of all the rifles we struggled with as we were coming up through the competitive shooting sports - and all the money wasted. IMHO better to cry once.
Just my take on the subject - all the best to you,
kev
I hear people say the G&E is overly complicated - and I would agree for the most part, but I have put virtually hundreds of thousands of rounds thru my Racer without a single issue (I didn't create). It's okay to be complex or complicated if it is actually well designed - and both of these platforms are exceptionally well designed.
It would be great if testing facility records had any meaning at all - they simply don't. The testing methods never mimic real world use, so they are a base line for best lots. Regardless of your discipline (BR or position), the work begins after you make a selection and begin to work with it in your individual rifle. The quality of the platform makes this whole process a whole lot easier - and there's the value of the Bleiker and G&E Racer (especially if you are not a gunsmith, and need something competitive out of the box).
And the term "expensive" is relative. Think of all the rifles we struggled with as we were coming up through the competitive shooting sports - and all the money wasted. IMHO better to cry once.
Just my take on the subject - all the best to you,
kev
Can you define what contributes to "better accuracy standards from the factory"? Is it that Bleiker/G&E won't let a rifle leave the factory unless it meets a certain accuracy level, or is their something in their design that contributes to better accuracy (barrel, action, trigger, etc)?
You shot a Walther before going to the Racer, and since you do your own barrel/chamber work, I'm assuming there's something besides barrel/chamber you like better with the Racer that makes it more accurate for you.
I have heard (on good authority) in the past that part of the cost of their barreled actions is the barrel culling both of the companies do to meet baseline accuracy criteria. The use of quality match blanks is another positive step (although it is true that Walther makes some of the best factory barrels out there, the use of American match blanks improves the odds substantially - that's probably why they do it).
Both of these actions incorporate features widely accepted as accuracy enhancements - such as 6 o'clock firing pin positions, front locking lugs and absolutely exceptional triggers. The G&E also uses several applications of vibration deadening techniques (the shank is extended, and O rings added around the chamber area, and additional sorbothane balls under the barrel shoulder and barrel seating block. The G&E stock adds similar deadening balls in the area under the action. All of this is difficult to quantify (from a performance perspective), but it all probably has some positive impact on overall performance.
I find it pretty amazing that these actions are not more widely used in the sport of BR, they incorporate all of their recognized "must haves", and although expensive are not beyond consideration given what a case of ammunition costs today.
The reasons I would recommend both of these manufacturers though are not all related to pure accuracy (although as I stated, there are no complaints from me in that regard). The biggest benefit in the action design is the shortened bolt(s), and the repositioning of the loading port under the shooters face. Ergonomically you don't have to break position or even lift the elbow to reload. The benefits of this alone are significant.
Only my opinion - I hope this helps,
kev
Thanks! Much appreciated.
Anyone looking for a position rifle keep in mind the Walther kk500 has the short bolt, long shank, and pin at 6 also.
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