Best scope stands for F-Class and spotting scopes with best eye relief?

[SEB-USA]

I really appreciate the info.
Checked some web prices on the 883 - Wow! :'(

The 82 didn't shock me as much.
Do they still make the LER eyepiece for the 82?
What would a fair market price for a 82 with the LER eyepiece?

Any other scopes in the quality level of the Kowa 82 with a LER eyepiece?
Are there any other eyepieces that has its amount of eye relief?

I may lean toward economy at first: A mid-range scope stand and angled eyepiece spotter is better than nothing.
Either that or I am going to have to move some other items.
I am surely not opposed to used equipment.

Any issues in stand selection features desired to extend the scope away from pole when I am using the MAX Rest for Open, since it is such a wide rest?
Compared to most of you guys, I will only do one big match a year, like Nationals.
Hopefully, one maybe two 600 yard matches that are under a 4 hour drive that have matches on Saturdays.

 

[memilanuk]

Hello Ernie,

As I'm not really in the market at the moment, I don't really have good answers for some of those things like used values, or what makes/models have LER/WA eyepieces available. Unless things have changed a lot (always possible) since when I last looked, 17-19mm is a very common range for eye relief, especially with anything having a variable power. If you do have to go with that short of an eye relief, at least make sure it has a rubber cup or bumper, otherwise you'll end up scratching your glasses. Don't ask me how I know that...

I really like the Ray-Vin F-base; I have one of the first batch he made 'back when'. At the time I was still shooting sling more so than now, and being slightly larger than the average bear... I was always bumping the dang scope stand while slung up. The F-base was a god-send for me in that regard. It is somewhat heavy, as most HP stands tend to be weighted at the base so they will be stable(ish) when used for Sitting and Offhand positions. Thats all well and good, but if you travel by air at all, 'heavy' isn't always good. Also most spotting scope stands designed of 'Offhand' seem to assume that the shooter is going to rest their rifle on their stool and lean forward a bit to look thru the scope, so they don't really go *all* the way up - at least not to the height I need, being 6' 4" or so. If you're not shooting offhand, thats not a big concern - but it does limit the usefulness of the stand for other things, like standing behind the firing line watching someone else, coaching, etc.

A couple years ago I started using a Slik medium sized tripod with the 661 because it has a pan/tilt head that could lay over flat and the legs fold *out* almost flat, allowing the tripod to be fairly low to the ground and still put the scope over where I need it to see from position while still being very light for travel (or packing around hunting), and being tall enough (barely) for use while scoring from a chair behind/beside the shooter in an F-Class match. Standing use is out, though.

Since I help as an instructor/coach at an event where there isn't enough room for the shooter and the spotter/coach on the firing mound at the same time, I needed something that I could use standing up, on a slope behind the shooter, and that was sturdy enough and stiff enough that it wouldn't vibrate in the wind (rendering the image almost useless for coaching). Basically I wanted a full-sized version of the aforementioned Slik tripod. I had seen a few threads on other forums, notably Sniper's Hide, about tripods for various uses. While the Slik had its adherents, I decided that what I wanted was a Manfrotto 055 or 190 tripod, and a 322 pistol-grip head. The 055 is slightly taller, with a bigger footprint, and unfortunately heavier. Otherwise, it's pretty much perfect for what I wanted. I can use it standing behind a shooter at the range for sight-in. I can use it to score from a chair behind a competitor on the line, and I can spread the legs out and extend the arm over to put the scope right next to my rifle on the line where I don't have to move out of position at all to look through the eye piece. If a person were not quite as tall, the 190 might be a better option. If there is one downside, its the footprint that it takes up to the left of the shooter can be a bit much if you're shooting in a Fullbore match where the competitors are set up two or even three to a firing point. Otherwise, a moot point.

Monte

 

[SEB-USA]

Monte,
They still make the LER eyepiece. A new 82 with the LER eye piece will run me around $920 or so.
I will only be shooting F-Open or TR, so all of my competing will be prone. My stand will need to function from a sitting position though. I already have a full-size carbon fiber tripod if I need to stand.
Thanks for the heads up on the SLIK. I already use one of their tripods, just not the one you mention.

 

[AR Shooter]

There is a mistake in one of the longer posts above. ED, HD and fluorite are types of lens material (higher light transmission glass) and not coatings. Any decent lens will have good magnesium-fluoride and other anti-reflection and other types of proprietary coatings. You just missed a 663 Kowa in the classifieds. I almost jumped on it myself, but by the time I decided to do so it was gone (he who hesitates is lost........). Understand that the view thru a 66mm is likely sharper but not quite as bright as on an 82mm scope. Is easier to make a good smaller lens than to make a good larger lens. The downside is that the smaller lens cannot gather as much light. That is why there is such a big price jump between Kowa's 66mm ED glass scope and their larger ED glass scopes. That bigger lens is considerably more difficult to manufacture. Not quite as big a jump with Celestron. If it were my money and I was going with a Kowa it would be the 663 with ED glass rather than the 82mm model with standard glass. With optics, you 'generally' get what you pay for.

 

[SEB-USA]

I am still trying to make up my mind exactly what I want. This I do know though, I want the eye relief of that Kowa LER 25x.
Is the difference in the 663 and 82 purely objective size?
I might even have some good trading material... ;D ;D ;D

 

[AR Shooter]

Not the same. As you can read on the Kowa website, the TSN-663 has the better XD-fluorite glass. The 663 is also considerably more compact and a pound lighter. Personally, I find the smaller size easier to manipulate/use when shooting prone. But that is a personal thing and you may not mind the larger 82SV.

http://www.kowaproducts.com/KowaTSN-660SeriesSpottingScopes/KowaTSN-663AngledSpottingScope/

http://www.kowaproducts.com/KowaTSN-82SVSeriesSpottingScope/KowaTSN-82SV-AngledSpottingScope/

 

[SEB-USA]

Because of the great eye relief, I have made up my mind on brand.
Now it is a matter of educating myself of the pros and cons, cost, etc

 

[STSClays]

You would think that with Todays technology the ranges would build a small berm in front of the targets were you could safely mount Wireless Camera to send live data your iPad so you can see your shots clear as day!

I can understand needing something to read conditions but to see your target why spend $2K Plus on a scope when you can probably find a $100 camera option that is better!

Joe

 

[SEB-USA]

I guess that would depend on if that camera is considered an "electronic device."

 

[STSClays]

Ah, Rules I dont know about, lol! I am new to this, lol!

 

[SEB-USA]

Join the club! I was completely new to the sport as well before Seb and I went to Nat/World.
It was a great place to get started.

Ah, Rules I dont know about, lol! I am new to this, lol!

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Yeah, but you had a bit of help from some guy on another forum.

 

[SEB-USA]

Yeah, but you had a bit of help from some guy on another forum.

I sure did and it is greatly appreciated.
I also had a couple of customers that explained some things to me over the phone.
Everyone has been so helpful.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Glad to have been of help. Now get Seb to start moving with his fancy bipods.

On another note, after reflection and some playing around, I think I'm going to stick with the current tripod and the Polecat head. I still have not found something that can beat it for sheer simplicity and the capability to adjust the elevation of the scope by just turning screws on the legs is just unbeatable.

I'm a long time camera buff and have all manners of monopods and tripods (Manfrottos and others). In order to adjust elevation, one must unlock the current setting move the head and lock it down again, unless you have a sophisticated ($$$) head. In a spotting scope setting, once in position, it's always a pain to change the scopes elevation playing with the head. I realize you should have all that set and locked down before you get in position, but that does not work for me; I set my rifle down, aimed at the target. Then I place the scope close to the rifle and finally I lie down between the scope and the rifle. Once I'm comfortable behind the rifle I drag the scope closer and bam, there goes the elevation.

With the tripod I have, instead of fighting with a recalcitrant head, I just turn a screw to crank up or lower one leg of the tripod and watch the scope get into position nicely. I leave the left to right movement free on the spotting scope so I can observe everywhere, and the elevation is easily fine tuned with one of the three screws.

 

[seb]

E, don't waste your money to buy a tripod/spotting scope stand. I'll make one for you & you will love it!
(You know what I mean if I say you'll "love it")
seb.

Hi Dennis, I could probably start moving with the Joy-pod (gen-3) around late October.

 

[SEB-USA]

COOL!
COOL!
COOL!
I was about an hour away from ordering a stand and a head.

I have been telling everyone after the first of the year on the Joy-Pod's.....

E, don't waste your money to buy a tripod/spotting scope stand. I'll make one for you & you will love it!
(You know what I mean if I say you'll "love it")
seb.

Hi Dennis, I could probably start moving with the Joy-pod (gen-3) around late October.

 

[savageshooter86]

Ernie what scope did you choose? What stand? How you like it?

 

[SEB-USA]

Got a Kowa with the long eye relief eyepiece.
Seb is going to make a stand for me, but since we knew were not going to Nats this year we held off to play catch up with other things.

 

[RDavies]

E, don't waste your money to buy a tripod/spotting scope stand. I'll make one for you & you will love it!
(You know what I mean if I say you'll "love it")
seb.

Hi Dennis, I could probably start moving with the Joy-pod (gen-3) around late October.

Now Seb, are going to be able to adjust the spotting scope with a joystick? ;D

 

[seb]

Almost close Rod. It will have rough elevation and fine tilting (+rotation) adjustment with operation of pure one hand. It will be extra rigid and pretty too, lol.
I'd produce this & other things once I have produced "enough" rests to fill the demand.....well hopefully!(?)
seb.