F-T/R with a spotting scope?
- Thread starter eric32
- Start date
DBailey said:
David - do you think this may in part be due to the relationship of the flags vs the bullets trajectory?...the higher you go the faster the wind...
Our 1000 yard line is almost the same level as the 900 yard flags...you definitely don't want to miss a change on the 900 flag...where as shooting from the other yardages you would typically be well under the near flag....
I would love to get some threads going that discussed these sorts of wind issues but haven't bothered as they will most likely sink into absolutes and arguments instead of providing "wind thinking" time.
OP - one thing to keep in mind with using a spotting scope is - it can take a bit to get it setup and working right...the points might drop initially...you might be used to using one from TR days...so not such an issue....Personally I have had a real job getting a spotting scope working so I have gone down the better scope route with the spotting scope being used when I am really unsure.
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
Most range wind flags, at 30 feet or so tall, are far, far above the actual trajectory of even a .308 win (approx. 11-12 feet @ the peak of the trajectory) - barring any local topographical peculiarities. With a full-sized 12-15 foot long wind flag, even the tip is above the bullet actual flight path - before it starts lofting in the wind. It's an imperfect world... 
memilanuk said:Most range wind flags, at 30 feet or so tall, are far, far above the actual trajectory of even a .308 win (approx. 11-12 feet @ the peak of the trajectory) - barring any local topographical peculiarities. With a full-sized 12-15 foot long wind flag, even the tip is above the bullet actual flight path - before it starts lofting in the wind. It's an imperfect world...
I never thought it that way
For simplicity, I started in F class using the scope for aiming and "spotting". Worked very well. Then moved to the SIII10-50X60. Worked even better.
Most of the ranges I compete at are fairly narrow so the smaller field of view of the scope is plenty. I typically compete around 35 to 40X and can see several targets.
At Raton where it is big enough to have different weather on either side of the range, I found the scope alone lacking
To start, I think using the scope alone will be plenty confusing enough - there is alot of info to take in and learning means you will take quite a bit longer to "see, understand, decide and adjust". Adding more information may overwhelm your decisions. Scope and flags to start works for many.
Another problem with using a spotter and a scope is the time lag to roll back onto the target and shoot. A couple of seconds can be an eternity on a range like Raton when conditions twirl around like a Jack Russel on Speed.
When I come down to Raton again this Aug, I will have support optics AND my sightron. The optic will be used to survey the range as much as possible to see BIG changes or more appropriate.... PENDING DISASTER. The scope will tell me about what is happening in my little tunnel of space as my trigger breaks.
Yes, I have had to adjust while pulling the trigger to account for sudden changes. Those shooting big monster F open rigs may be wondering what the fuss is about but when you push a 90/223 to 1000yds, you worry about everything.
No, I will be shooting a 308 and heavies this Aug. There is only so much abuse you can take....
Jerry
PS, please note that when you must see mirage, there are a few "better" scopes that will not. Best to test drive before you buy and see what works best for your eyes. Also, there are several very inexpensive spotters that excel at seeing mirage. Problem is they have straight eye pieces so useage is not ideal. Buy based on what the optics lets you see - might surprise you at what works.
Most of the ranges I compete at are fairly narrow so the smaller field of view of the scope is plenty. I typically compete around 35 to 40X and can see several targets.
At Raton where it is big enough to have different weather on either side of the range, I found the scope alone lacking
To start, I think using the scope alone will be plenty confusing enough - there is alot of info to take in and learning means you will take quite a bit longer to "see, understand, decide and adjust". Adding more information may overwhelm your decisions. Scope and flags to start works for many.
Another problem with using a spotter and a scope is the time lag to roll back onto the target and shoot. A couple of seconds can be an eternity on a range like Raton when conditions twirl around like a Jack Russel on Speed.
When I come down to Raton again this Aug, I will have support optics AND my sightron. The optic will be used to survey the range as much as possible to see BIG changes or more appropriate.... PENDING DISASTER. The scope will tell me about what is happening in my little tunnel of space as my trigger breaks.
Yes, I have had to adjust while pulling the trigger to account for sudden changes. Those shooting big monster F open rigs may be wondering what the fuss is about but when you push a 90/223 to 1000yds, you worry about everything.
No, I will be shooting a 308 and heavies this Aug. There is only so much abuse you can take....
Jerry
PS, please note that when you must see mirage, there are a few "better" scopes that will not. Best to test drive before you buy and see what works best for your eyes. Also, there are several very inexpensive spotters that excel at seeing mirage. Problem is they have straight eye pieces so useage is not ideal. Buy based on what the optics lets you see - might surprise you at what works.
Hopefully, you will be able to shoot on a range with regulation flags and be scored.
Get or make a plot sheet. Your skill will only improve when you can connect cause and effect. Look at ballistics tables all you want but seeing a bullet move so far on a target given so much wind teaches you RIGHT NOW.
When I was trying to figure things out, I would get a big target with a mark way upwind.
See the flags, mirage, moving trees/grass, whatever. Take a SWAG, aim at the mark, guess how far downwind the bullet would drift, shoot a few shots. Go see what happened. Kind of guess which shot would have gone where given the winds.
Repeat. I shoot where I couldn't be scored, just shooting alone.
This is painfully slow but eventually, you learn cause and effect.
Soon after, I set up a wireless camera so I could see each impact while shooting. WOW, my learning curve shot up.
Once you figure out how to tune your rifle and shoot well enough to hit that X/10 ring, the rest is wind reading and the only way to learn is to have feedback for each shot.
Cause... Effect.
At some point, you will anticipate where you need to aim to get the effect you want.
When that X pops up on that target, all this effort will be worth it.
And that is what keeps me coming back for more....
Jerry
Get or make a plot sheet. Your skill will only improve when you can connect cause and effect. Look at ballistics tables all you want but seeing a bullet move so far on a target given so much wind teaches you RIGHT NOW.
When I was trying to figure things out, I would get a big target with a mark way upwind.
See the flags, mirage, moving trees/grass, whatever. Take a SWAG, aim at the mark, guess how far downwind the bullet would drift, shoot a few shots. Go see what happened. Kind of guess which shot would have gone where given the winds.
Repeat. I shoot where I couldn't be scored, just shooting alone.
This is painfully slow but eventually, you learn cause and effect.
Soon after, I set up a wireless camera so I could see each impact while shooting. WOW, my learning curve shot up.
Once you figure out how to tune your rifle and shoot well enough to hit that X/10 ring, the rest is wind reading and the only way to learn is to have feedback for each shot.
Cause... Effect.
At some point, you will anticipate where you need to aim to get the effect you want.
When that X pops up on that target, all this effort will be worth it.
And that is what keeps me coming back for more....
Jerry
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