Best Bore Cleaning Chemicals - need recommendations

[1972]

I’d like to get some advice on cleaning chemicals. I’m just getting into shooting 223 and 6BR and have never had to clean this type of firearm before. Most of my shooting to date has been with handguns and lead bullets. Now I’m dealing with copper and molly.

I know everybody has a “favorite”, and in many cases one product might be more or less as good as the next – but I was wondering if there would be a consensus on a few recommendations for me to start with.

Based on what I’ve read most shooters seem to like “Wipe Out” or it’s liquid counterpart “Patch Out” as a copper remover. So I thought I’d go with the Patch Out to solve any copper problems. Apparently this will allow me to avoid ever having to scrub the bore with abrasives and bronze brushes.

For a general purpose solvent (powder, carbon, etc) I thought I’d go with Shooters Choice.

Those two products should pretty much do it shouldn’t they – or will I need something else to deal with the molly?

Does anybody have any recommendations for other products that will work better than the ones I’ve named – either for a copper remover or a general purpose powder and carbon solvent?

Thanks for any tips and advice.

 

[LHSmith]

[quote
I
Apparently this will allow me to avoid ever having to scrub the bore with abrasives and bronze brushes.


IMHO, without using Iosso or JB and bronze brushes, you are going to get a carbon ring just forward of the chamber ....and once it builds up it will be a nightmare to get it out.

 

[archerross]

I too use PatchOut, in fact I switched from WipeOut to PatchOut because, according to the manufacturer, PatchOut is a stronger solvent AND it is a better value (more cleaning for the price). PatchOut removes copper, carbon, and powder fouling so it is the only solvent I use. Oops, small error in that statement, I also use the Accelerator with PatchOut. Anyhow, the statement about the carbon ring made by LHSMITH is true to my recent experience.

I got my 6.5-284 in April 2009 and after the first month or so, I stopped using a brush altogether. Fast forward to May 2010. Both my established target and hunting loads began to be rather inconsistent with respect to group size, velocity, and pressures. After cleaning really well with PatchOut+Accel. (no brush), I decided to run a bronze brush down the barrel 3-4 times and then reapply PatchOut+Accel. WHOA! Not only did I get more copper out (blue on the patch), but I also got a good bit of brown on the patch, indicating carbon fouling.

In consulting those with more experience than I, the carbon can glaze over copper and powder fouling even with good solvents. The brush breaks up the layers and allows the solvent to break down the "cake" so to speak. So, what happened to my loads? Well, I haven't retested the hunting load, but the target load which shot 1-1.2 inch at 100 yds :'( the weekend before shot back to back 0.35 inch groups after cleaning with the brush.

My new cleaning regiment will include limited brushing, likely every other cleaning. Just my $0.02.

 

[1972]

Thanks to both LHSMITH and ARCHERROSS. I appreciate everybody's "two cents worth" as I have not got a lot of experience with this.

I was hoping to avoid going anywhere near the bore or throat with a "metal" brush, and especially any sort of abrasive like JB or Iosso. Don't know what to do. I do know that some shooters religiously "scrub" their bores with bronze brushes and JB (or something like it). Other shooters tell you if you stick a bronze brush down the barrel you might as well throw the barrel away.

So I take it I am going to HAVE to use a bronze brush from time to time? If you have to do that, what is the mildest "abrasive" you can use and get the job done? Some of that stuff the manufacturers say you can use to clean a bore looks more like what you should be using to grind valves! Man - I HATE the thought of putting any of that stuff in my bore.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Bore Tech

 

[DHD]

Specifically, Bore Tech Eliminator or CU+4 Copper Remover. I am a barrel cleaner horder and have tried just about everything. These two work great and I don't worry about any possible etching.

Oh yeah, and a good Brownells Dewey brush every hundred or so shots out of a 308, a 6.5 Grendel, 30-06, 300 SAUM, oh well you get the picture.

My $.02 and all that.

 

[GerryM]

My first choice would be hoopes with nitro , but they don't make that anymore.
So i,m stuck using something else. Butches bore shine if your cleaning between string,s Montanas product are also good. Most of what the other guys recomended are also good.
I shoot benchrest so heres my way. I use a few wet patches with butches between strings. followed by a few dry ones. After the first match {mid noon I brush the bore with butches and dry out with clean patches. I then Run wet patches with butches down the bore and let the bore soak.
Before i pack the rifle i use iosso with some oil and follow with wet and dry patches until its clean.
If you bore scope it you will find it's squeeky clean.
Just make sure you get all of the iosso out.
This web site has several different methods of cleaning.
Theres a lot of talk about abrasives and cleaning. If you take it easy they won't harm your barrel A bronze bore brush will not harm your barrel.
Just my $.02 also

 

[butchlambert]

You know that you opened a can of worms. You will get 12 different opinions. A quality bronze brush and a quality bore guide will not have anything but a positive result on a good barrel. Isso or Jb are very fine abrasive cleaners. You will wear yourself out before they will hurt your barrel. Call your barrel supplier and ask him.
Butch

 

[BoydAllen]

What barrels and powders? With a hand lapped barrel and clean powders, at high pressures, it is a whole other deal...much easier. BTW, I have never had a carbon ring, but I have seen one.

 

[MarkS]

1972,

Like Butch said, you are going to get a 100 different ways. I have used them all, I am using TM Sol. not it works great.

Mark Schronce

 

[snoog37]

Wipe out if I am @ home & have time to let her sit. Boretech Eliminator @ the range.

 

[tome]

+1 on what Butch said..

 

[Kenny474]

If you do any amount of research on cleaning without brushing, you will find an abundance of stories on excessive carbon and copper buildup. I don't care what you put in the bore or how long you let it soak, it isn't going to get through everything without a little abrasive action.

I thought I would try the no brush/abrasive method on my new barrel, and was horrified by the borescope after maybe 350 rounds. Copper in the grooves and carbon in the throat. And I had left enough crap soaking in that barrel for it to be condemned by the EPA. After I scrubbed it all out (about 3 hours later) I wished I had just kept up with it, as my arm was worn out. Even a nylon brush doesn't cut it nearly enough. If my barrel still shoots after the amount of JB that it saw, you will never hurt anything with regular use.

Just use a bore guide and be careful. Find a solvent system that works for you and use it regularly.

 

[TonyR]

Carb-Out, a close relative of Wipe-Out and Patch-Out, is intended to remove carbon but has done an amazing job of removing everything if I run it through a hot barrel.

 

[Moderator]

I thought I would try the no brush/abrasive method on my new barrel, and was horrified by the borescope after maybe 350 rounds. Copper in the grooves and carbon in the throat. And I had left enough crap soaking in that barrel for it to be condemned by the EPA. Find a solvent system that works for you and use it regularly.

I believe what Kenny is saying, but each barrel (and powder recipe) is different. I have a PacNor 3 groove with wide, flat grooves. Cleaning procedure is 4-5 soaking wet patches followed by 3-hour WipeOut soak then dry patches.

I typically do this ritual after 50-60 rounds.

In this barrel, I have never used a brush (bronze or otherwise), and never used abrasives.

After 700 rounds through barrel--

Accuracy is unchanged since new.
Velocity of factory 6mmBR ammo is within 8 fps of barrel when new.

Borescope inspection revealed some very thin dark streaks in land/groove transitions but no heavy carbon build-up and absolutely NO carbon ring. Area just ahead of Throat is PRISTINE. Honest.

No copper issues.

No pressure issues. My "go-to load" (30.3 Varget) chrons within 6 fps of average when the barrel had 100 rounds).

Crown looks like new (knife-edge with no "sharksteeth" left by bristles).

Part of the secret of the no-brushing routine is avoiding petroleum-based "miracle" elixirs in your barrel. Unless swabbed out, these can collect and burn off, leaving hard carbon like valve deposits on cars.

Do understand that I've had other barrels, with lots of tooling marks, that required heaving brushing to remove copper after just 20-25 rounds. Each barrel is different, but my general advice is:

Use the least invasive cleaning method that accomplishes your objectives.

 

[ttfreestyle]

WOW i am so confused!!!!

 

[sewwhat89]

I use Montana Extreme and Patch Out/Accelerator. I cut way back on using brushes, and when I do, I use the nylon version. Reason being, with the bronze brushes I could clean for 30 mins and still have blue streaks on patches. . . with nylon I would be done in 5 or 10. I use the CarbOut mentioned above to cut carbon fouling first. This product also removes traces of copper too. Then I clean to what I would consider pretty clean with Montana 50 BMG, patch dry, wet Accelerator patch immediately chased with PatchOut. I let it sit for however long it sits and patch it out. If the patch comes out with faint blue marks and is really smooth feeling down the bore, I pack it up in the safe; however, if the patch comes out with black/brown streaks and royal blue, I start over and will use JB or IOSSA(sp?) paste and/or nylon brush with some cleaning fluid whether it be PatchOut, Montana Extreme or anything else. And then I repeat the PatchOut and let it set overnight usually.

 

[DukeDuke]

After trying a few popular copper solvents, I picked KG12. The way it cuts the copper is superior to any other solvent I have used. My custom barrels don't really give me much to clean, but the factory ones make up for that. There is a copper solvent I haven't used but know folks swear by it. Check it out: http://warthog1134.com/index.htm

 

[normmatzen]

I'm into motorcycles too, both sport-touring and off-road.

This thread reminds me of a "What's the best oil to use in my Yamaahondasaki?"

 

[Forum Boss]

After trying a few popular copper solvents, I picked KG12. The way it cuts the copper is superior to any other solvent I have used.

KG12 really works. It is an outstanding copper cleaner that works fast. As with most solvents, use plenty. Guys running tight patches can squeeze nearly all the solvent off in the first half of the barrel, when most copper fouling usually appears in the last 6". I keep a small squirt bottle to squirt solvent right down the bore from the muzzle end if I have a barrel with a copper problem. Let the chemicals do the work.