Benchrest vs. F-Class

[bsumoba]

Bryan,
In the immortal words of Archie Bunker “stifle yourself”. Laying 2 feet from the guy next to me I don’t want to hear a muzzle break go off for 20-30 rounds at a time while I am trying to gentle press my trigger

Oh, I agree. I don't think brakes should EVER be accepted into F-Class. I shoot tactical as well and I am glad it is usually one shooter per stage.

Bryan last time I mentioned a Brake on an F-Class thread you would have sworn I said all the four letter words in one post. Plus the OP's question was really about why the Br guys went to smaller calibers like the Dasher and F-Class seemed to be migrating to bigger calibers. Matt

I know he did not mention brakes, but you cannot talk about caliber selection without talking about brakes. I don't know if BR guys would choose to shoot the 300 WSM if they didn't have a brake. Seems like the recoil management would be tougher to get rounds off faster, unless they got a super heavy BR set up. If I were to shoot BR, a 6 dasher would be my choice. Almost no recoil, a very accurate cartridge and with no delay, machine gunning those like 105s downrange would be no problem when a condition presents itself. Add a brake to a 6 Dasher, 17 lb or heavy gun and it is like a 22LR, and that would make it even easier to shoot 10 rounds downrange.

IMO, by omitting brakes in F-Open, you really have to decide as a shooter what benefits you want and what negatives you can live with.

6 Dasher is super easy to shoot with no recoil and is a very accurate cartridge. But, the fact that it is a light bullet means that wind gets the best of it.

300 WSM is recoil heavy and punishing to shoot 60+ rounds in a day, for 3-4 days straight. But, you get some advantage with the high BC bullets and it is also an accurate cartridge when it is tuned. I wonder if brakes were allowed in F-Open, if guys would be shooting it more often...

I think that is why the 6.5mm and 7mm are such a good cartridges. High BC, wind bucking bullets and manageable recoil. I think this is why most F-Open guys are shooting these cartridges.

 

[dkhunt14]

I bet a 22 pound WSM without a brake is about the same recoil as a 17 pound with one. My one buddy shot without a brake and free recoiled it. A lot of guys take way more then a minute to shoot 10 shots. Matt

 

[savagedasher]

Larry -

You should rally for E-Gongs at Mantanee instead....

D

We have it now we have to wate for it to stop moving . We even have one better the 30 minute rule. The range goes cold every half hour and we go repainted . So it is 3/4 of a hour between the next time you shoot with no more practice . The target is 8" . The 10 ring is 7 " on your target . But we shoot 1018 yards also . So simple a cave man can do it. Larry

 

[dmoran]

We have it now we have to wate for it to stop moving . We even have one better the 30 minute rule. The range goes cold every half hour and we go repainted . So it is 3/4 of a hour between the next time you shoot with no more practice . The target is 8" . The 10 ring is 7 " on your target . But we shoot 1018 yards also . So simple a cave man can do it. Larry

Larry
Unlike 1000-BR, you get to see every shot hit or miss and adjust (like FClass).
So ya..... so simple a caveman can do it !.!.!

Just think, with E-Gongs the money the range could save on paint, and you guys from smelling all those fumes !.!.!
And it would measure your dispersion, so you wouldn't have to use your "in scope" method.
D

 

[Steve Blair]

I bet a 22 pound WSM without a brake is about the same recoil as a 17 pound with one. My one buddy shot without a brake and free recoiled it. A lot of guys take way more then a minute to shoot 10 shots. Matt

My .300 WSM is 2½ oz. shy of 22# and shoots 230 Hybrids at ~2865 fps. I think most BR shooters are using lighter bullets at slower velocities. It is not a straight comparison. Recoil, in the linear sense, is not really the problem. It's torque and body position sensitivity that cause most problems.

 

[Bob Sebold]

The delay is set into the program. Without it (delay) you could shoot as fast as you could reload. It just slows the pace. 7 seconds is considered a good pull time. For anybody who has had a bad puller from Italy, in the worlds, or anywhere else, this will be a welcome change. Of course, one more excuse will be eliminated. Pity, because I used that one a lot! Still, nobody says you have to shoot that fast, but you cannot shoot any faster as the shot will not register. It shows up but does not count it. If you get a cross fire in that time, or someone crossfires before you shoot, you call an official over and they will be able to blank out a shot and then add yours. Hopefully your scorer is paying attention. It will still work the same way as it does now with these problems, only faster. Benchrest guys will probably not use e targets, because they cannot measure them. Another difference.

 

[dkhunt14]

My .300 WSM is 2½ oz. shy of 22# and shoots 230 Hybrids at ~2865 fps. I think most BR shooters are using lighter bullets at slower velocities. It is not a straight comparison. Recoil, in the linear sense, is not really the problem. It's torque and body position sensitivity that cause most problems.

I am shooting a 210 VLD at 2850 to 2900. I would think the difference is hardly noticeable. I know when I shot 190 verses 210 In a 308 Baer I couldn't notice a difference. Now this was a 16.5 pound gun with a brake. Matt

 

[Steve Blair]

I am shooting a 210 VLD at 2850 to 2900. I would think the difference is hardly noticeable. I know when I shot 190 verses 210 In a 308 Baer I couldn't notice a difference. Now this was a 16.5 pound gun with a brake. Matt

You might not think so, but when I shot 210 LRBT at ~3000 in the same rifle, the difference was large and apparent. There was somewhat less recoil and much less torque. I would have said the same thing as you before experiencing it.

 

[Mozella]

........ snip............. I wonder if brakes were allowed in F-Open, if guys would be shooting it more often........... snip......

Perhaps, but I would drop out of F class competition and so would most of my friends. Muzzle brakes are the devils work. They're fine if they're on your barrel, but if they're on the shooters either side of you, it's horrible, even shooting for fun or doing load development. If one of these inconsiderate shooters sets-up next to me at the local range, I move.

If you use a rifle with heavy recoil either man-up, buy a less brutal gun, or shoot alone. Please don't ruin my day by using a muzzle brake next to me. There is nothing more rude than blasting your neighbors because you're too wimpy to handle your gun.

 

[dkhunt14]

I saw the 50 CAL shooters with Clamshell brakes lay on the ground and shoot beside each other. Now talking about muzzle blast. They must be a lot tougher. One guy fell asleep during the Preperation and sighter period and missed his record string. Matt

 

[ShootDots]

I saw the 50 CAL shooters with Clamshell brakes lay on the ground and shoot beside each other. Now talking about muzzle blast. They must be a lot tougher. One guy fell asleep during the Preperation and sighter period and missed his record string. Matt

Maybe the concussion from the muzzle blast knocked the old boy out and he was not asleep after all! LOL!!!

 

[dkhunt14]

No I actually talked to him. He said he was tired from driving all night to get there. I said how could you sleep during that? He said it wasn't hard. LOL Matt​

 

[ShootDots]

No I actually talked to him. He said he was tired from driving all night to get there. I said how could you sleep during that? He said it wasn't hard. LOL Matt​

He must have been R-E-A-L-L-Y tired. When I shoot, I am so focused, I don't even hear the other rifles going off! My "focus" keeps me wide awake and alert..

 

[johara1]

Must have had some slow pullers……. to fall asleep. jim

 

[altabonita]

If you use a rifle with heavy recoil either man-up, buy a less brutal gun, or shoot alone. Please don't ruin my day by using a muzzle brake next to me. There is nothing more rude than blasting your neighbors because you're too wimpy to handle your gun.

Wow

 

[dmoran]

I saw the 50 CAL shooters with Clamshell brakes lay on the ground and shoot beside each other. Now talking about muzzle blast. They must be a lot tougher. One guy fell asleep during the Preperation and sighter period and missed his record string. Matt

Now that's funny...... I don't care who you are !.!.!

.

 

[bsumoba]

If guys are shooting 50 cal with big chevron brakes and they are laying next to each other and doing this for regular matches, I fear that their hearing is probably bad already and that would make it easier to fall asleep

 

[Catfur]

Now that's funny...... I don't care who you are !.!.!

.

Fell asleep in the driver's hole (of an M1 Abrams) at boresighting/zero. Left the hatch open, helmet got sucked off head by the muzzle blast.

 

[JohnKielly]

If guys are shooting 50 cal with big chevron brakes and they are laying next to each other and doing this for regular matches, I fear that their hearing is probably bad already and that would make it easier to fall asleep

Eh?