Benchrest vs. F-Class

[Gunracer]

Is it just me or are benchrest and F-class slowly migrating in opposite directions? I was looking through a book from a few years back about precision shooting at 1000 yards. All the rifles were very big .30 cal wildcats like 30-378s and such. Now I look at the results of 1000 yard benchrest matches and the diminutive 6 Dasher is in vogue. Whereas F-class seems to be working it's way up from the 6BR through the 6.5-284, the 7 Shehane and up to the 7mm and .30 caliber magnums.
I am curious if anyone has any thoughts on the subject.

 

[dkhunt14]

The 6 Dasher and 300 WSM are just very accurate. They are easier to tune and load. They have bigger window of tune where things like temperature and stuff doesn't change like other cartridges. The slower speeds of these over the big cases of years ago just shoot better. You don't seem to get the wild fliers.

In benchrest both group and score count. All ties are broke by group so group tends to be what most shoot for. In benchrest a lot of guys have tried 7MM cartridges because of the BC and they just were not as accurate as needed, yet they seem very popular in F-Class.

In F-Class I believe they like a higher BC and speed because they are trying to score or stay centered on the target. The vertical and accuracy doesn't matter quite as much to them. Matt

 

[savageshooter86]

Matt we basically look for least vertical and accuracy. We try to put 20 shots, spread over say 15 minutes, into 5" xring at 1000 yards. Different than BR in that we are at the mercy of target pullers in the pits

The vertical and accuracy doesn't matter quite as much to them. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

Matt we basically look for least vertical and accuracy. We try to put 20 shots, spread over say 15 minutes, into 5" xring at 1000 yards. Different than BR in that we are at the mercy of target pullers in the pits

Thanks for the reply, I am not an F-Class shooter but read some on it. We need to hold less then 5 inches of vertical on a good day. In Heavy gun on a good day you need to shoot 10 shoots in the low 4 inches. In Light gun (IBS 5 shots) you need to be in the 3 inch to 4 inch range a lot of times to win. In our light gun (10 shots) you need to be in the 6 inch range to win. Now these are all figured on decent conditions. Our x-ring is 3 inches and the ten is 7 inches.

We get spotted shots for the 6 minute sighter period, then on the record, you are on your own. You can pick and choose or run them. I usually will never hold. I will stop and wait for what I think is the same conditions to return. I believe that is why you see the differences on approach to loads and cartridges used. We need slightly better accuracy or you don't win. I believe this is also the difference you see in the wind thread. There just are loads that shoot through it better then others. I get that the F-Class guys don't see this because of the way they shoot. I see the 1000 yard BR guys saying pretty much the same thing and the F-Class guys saying the same thing, but in a different way. That is why I try to avoid the wind threads. Matt

 

[dmoran]

Matt we basically look for least vertical and accuracy. We try to put 20 shots, spread over say 15 minutes, into 5" xring at 1000 yards. Different than BR in that we are at the mercy of target pullers in the pits

Andrew -

In my experience, X-Ring size for vertical is what is demanded and desired to both realms, just as you stated.
The differences being the X-Ring sizes:

As you stated, the 1000 FClass target has a 5" X-Ring, and is what is demanded for vertical accuracy.
The IBS-1000 target (is very similar to the 600 FClass target) has a 3" X-Ring, which is the demands to it.
The IBS-600 target is similar to the 300 FClass target.

Here is an Excel with dimensions: Target Dimensions
Donovan

 

[savageshooter86]

Also BR doesn't have to wait for target pullers to pull target and mark shothe then raise target back before you can shoot another round. That's why the use of electronic targets for me is a plus. I can send them down range as fast as I can pull trigger. Has worked several matches now for me doing this method.

You always hate slow target pullers that take so long that the condition is going out. Then you have to wait. Throws me off personally. But others are patient enough to wait up to minutes for it to come back

 

[dmoran]

^^^^ Yep... BenchRest would be more similar to FClass with electronic targets, with one difference: turn the target off for the record string. 600/1000 BenchRest is shot "blind" with no scoring, marking, or pulling of the target during the record strings.
Donovan

 

[HPMike800]

Also BR doesn't have to wait for target pullers to pull target and mark shothe then raise target back before you can shoot another round. That's why the use of electronic targets for me is a plus. I can send them down range as fast as I can pull trigger. Has worked several matches now for me doing this method.

You always hate slow target pullers that take so long that the condition is going out. Then you have to wait. Throws me off personally. But others are patient enough to wait up to minutes for it to come back

Exactly the 2nd biggest problem with electronic targets and F-open. Build a gun that takes the least amount of physical skill to shoot, then remove the required mental game by adding electric targets so you can machine gun your way through a match. Poison to your growth as a shooter. Just My 0.02 man.

 

[Lbart]

Gunracer,

I’ll comment on F-Class only. In 2007 the USA target size for F-Class was cut in half. This meant the target area was reduced by 75%. You could no longer clean the target with the equipment then in common use. The hunt was on to reduce wind drift and elevation height (the thought on shooters minds was the 10 ring is wider from 3 to 9 o’clock). Reduce wind drift and/or the height of your load and your score would come up. And they did.

savageshooter86,

I hope the powers that be require a time delay be built into the electronic targets to prevent your “send them down range as fast as I can pull trigger.” The main challenge and enjoyment of FC is in the wind doping. Do away with this and the game will be fundamentally changed.

 

[dmoran]

HPMike -

I respect your input to the electronic targets... As a possible remedy, couldn't there be a delay required, as to a more equal timing of the shots between pulling target ranges and electronic target ranges?

Just thinking out load
Donovan

 

[Marksman63]

In Europeans F Class Championship we shoot squadded in pairs therefore no strings and continuous challenging wind conditions.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

David Gosnell proved to me when he shot with us that a 284 f-open rifle can hang with a dasher. Of course he may have one of the best shooting 284s out there. The 2 sports have more in common than differences. The obvious difference is the delay between shots in f-class, which is why higher bc bullets are desired. The other difference I see is f-class seems to be growing faster.

 

[expiper]

I see the electronic targets as creating the ultimate of accuracy and score,,,it is like short range benchrest,,,you see the wind value immediately and correct for it ,,thus keeping the shots as near to each other and also centerd as possible,,,,,,this eliminates the problem of slow pit service and a wind coach leaning over to twist on your scope knobs,,,,just a marksman seeing where his shots are going and correcting for any wind for his next shot,,,Roger

 

[Steve Blair]

David Gosnell proved to me when he shot with us that a 284 f-open rifle can hang with a dasher. Of course he may have one of the best shooting 284s out there. The 2 sports have more in common than differences. The obvious difference is the delay between shots in f-class, which is why higher bc bullets are desired. The other difference I see is f-class seems to be growing faster.

The other significant factor is rear bag stability. Regardless whether it is on the mat or ground, it is not as stable as a concrete bench. It's just part of the deal.

 

[savageshooter86]

It still requires ability to see wind change. And knowledge to see it happen and hold off or wait. Just don't have to rely on target puller to ruin your rhythm and possibly lose points

It helps me see the change and the impact on target it had. So it's not an easy way out or being able to compete with national shooters and have no skill

 

[Scott Harris]

What!? 16 replies and no REAL smack talk going yet? I'll get it started. We imported one of those genetically superior "B"enchrest shooters for our F-Open team at the Berger's....a hall of famer no less. He'll be a trigger puller...the wind-reading will be done by the F'ers.

Oh ya, there DEFINITELY won't be any Dashers on our team!

 

[baydawg]

Why not shoot the most awesome, wind buckingest, super calibers? With mercury recoil reducers and shock absorbers no one is feeling the recoil anyway?

Just kidding, of course.

Sincerely,

Palma

 

[spclark]

Once ET's become the norm (this year I predict marks the beginning of the countdown) rather than the infrequent exception, the differences between traditional Benchrest and F-Class as they are now will quickly become merely whether a shooter's sitting at a bench or laying on the ground.

You BR guys don't have targets that get pulled & marked for every shot....

You don't have targets that get the nine square inch critical scoring area shot out after 22 or 44 rounds requiring replacement....

You shoot what, 5 shots for a group on a target where F'ers shoot 15 or 20 maybe after two sighters?

You clean after every 5 shots?

Don't light the flames just yet! I still shoot w/sling & match sights, my x-ring's bigger than yours! ET's will change a lot of things about long range shooting very soon.

 

[savagedasher]

Once ET's become the norm (this year I predict marks the beginning of the countdown) rather than the infrequent exception, the differences between traditional Benchrest and F-Class as they are now will quickly become merely whether a shooter's sitting at a bench or laying on the ground.

You BR guys don't have targets that get pulled & marked for every shot....

You don't have targets that get the nine square inch critical scoring area shot out after 22 or 44 rounds requiring replacement....

You shoot what, 5 shots for a group on a target where F'ers shoot 15 or 20 maybe after two sighters?

You clean after every 5 shots?

Don't light the flames just yet! I still shoot w/sling & match sights, my x-ring's bigger than yours! ET's will change a lot of things about long range shooting very soon.

The difference between the two is F class your ammunition is fixed.
BR shooting only 5 shots and you can adjust the load. They don't shoot for the 10 or the X ring. Two different sports. Larry

 

[dkhunt14]

All heavy guns shoot 10 shots. The IBS and NBRSA shoot 5 in light gun. At Williamsport they also shoot 10 in light gun. You basically have 6 minutes of pulled sighters. Then the record comes up and you shoot your records. We have 10 minutes in heavy gun and 15 minutes in light gun to shoot your record. Our x-ring is 3 inches and the 10 ring is 7 inches. Matt