Beginning 1000 yard scope

[Tulie]

I'm starting to get into the 1000 yard playground and have a question on a good/very good scope to start out with. I'm not sure how deep I want to dive into this right now so am planning to set up a rifle I have on hand that has done well at 600 yards but want to upgrade the scope slightly.

My questions are:
Since I live in the sunny southwest mirage is a big issue here and I believe to take full advantage of a scope I need a variable. Main reason is because I want enough power to see well enough at 1000 yards but not enough to make the mirage too much to shoot. Is this reasonable from the experienced shooters out there? Power suggestions? 6x20, 6x24? Or go with a fixed 16 or 20?

I am shooting a Ruger 77 for now and am limited with ring availability. Any good ideas as to what to look for here?

Next why do I not see Burris variables mentioned much at all? I've looked through a couple and though they would fit well but nobody seems to mention them. Also, what about the Super Sniper scope? Worth all the hype? Wait for one in a variable?

I've got a decent load and feel the rifle will come around with a little work being done to it but the scope is the issue right now. I'm not budget crunched but don't want to bit off a high dollar scope just yet so the high end Leupold's and Nightforce stuff will have to wait for the next go-round.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

i have a burrris black diamond 8x32x50mm and i love it. its on my ruger 22-250 target/varmint. i would definetly recommend this scope. its bright a very clear, though not quit as clear as my nighforce, but still very very good. also, i have heard good things about the new sightron 6x24 and the nikon 6-24. i would seriously consider those. the burris i have has a ballistic mil dit reticle and it is probably too thick for 1000y target so get the fine plex. the pentax 8.5x32x50mm is also an awesome scope. all of these scopes are well under $1000. you can get a black diamond for about $675, the nikon is $625 and the sightron is either $515 or $780 depending on the model. the ziess conquest 6.5-20x50mm for $900 is one hell of a nice scope.

 

[Tulie]

Thanks for the info. The black diamond is a 30mm tube isn't it? There in lies my problem with rings, very limited supply from what I've found although it might have enough internal adjustment for what I want to do, just not sure. I have a couple of other Nikon's and I think their optics are at the very good level. Just really curious though why you don't hear more about the burris scopes as target scopes. Maybe you got it with the crosshair issue though.

Thanks again.

 

[wi50]

Tulie,
one thing to keep in mind with your setup is the elevation adjustment of the scope, to get to 1000 yds depending on your caliber/bullet selection and other factors you may need 22 to 40 moa up from your 100 yd zero.

My advice is to look around and, buy something that you can get your money back out of, good resale if and when you decide to upgrade.

For something in the $600 and less area, Bushnell 4200 6-24, there is a tactical model with turrets. I have not used one, but from what I hear they track well and have good glass. SWFA has the Super Snipers, lots of elevation, tracking is fine, glass is decent, they are fixed power. Not bad scopes, and for $300 they are good for the price. Maybe keep looking, some used Leupold LR, or varmint scopes may be the best option.

I've used a lot of different scopes, glass quality makes up for lack of magnification, a good 16X is better than a poor 24X. I have used 16X at 1000 yds, it's fine but on the shy side some times. 24X is "just right". You'll want something with at least 20X. I like my Nightforces, and when purchased right, they are free to own, though probably more than you want to spend at this time.

 

[rhino]

I think maybe a look into the Sightron line of scopes 6-24, I think you will need a set of burris signature rings with inserts to get to 1k though. Not too much money and they do work quite well.

A Super Sniper is 30mm main body as well. The BUshnell 10x is a 1 inch scope with plenty of elevation.

Mirage can be a pain in the arse. 6-24 is a nice fit.

RHINOUT!

 

[Spotcheck_Billy]

Your Ruger 77,if it's not an old flat top) is the limiting factor. Many of the scopes suggested do not have enough elevation come-ups to get you out to 1000 yards without some kind of 20MOA to 40MOA tapered base or Burris Signature rings,with maybe a maximum of 20MOA available in the inserts), neither of which, IIRC, are available for a Ruger 77 dovetail receiver.

You're going to need to know how many MOA your rifle/load combination needs to get out to 1000, then find a scope that has AT LEAST that much available from your zeroing distance. It's not going to be easy. A few hints - as a rule the 30mm scopes have more internal adjustments available than their 1" counterparts, and fixed power scopes generally have more internal adjustment capabilities than equivalent variables. Price is also a factor, as the more expensive scopes generally have a larger adjustment range than the lower priced models.

For example -
The 6-24 Elite 4200 scopes are excellent values, but have a very limited adjustment range, IIRC around 45MOA total, which winds up giving you 22.5MOA of up elevation from center. If you need thirty some-odd MOA to get to 1000 and lack a tapered base or a set of rings with the proper inserts you can see where the problem lies.

I'm not so sure that a mid-priced variable of the power range that you might need for successful 1000 yard shooting with enough internal elevation to be used without the use of insert rings or a tapered base even exists. I don't have the specs in front of me, but a fixed power,16x or 20x) Super Sniper might be the way to go, although it doesn't have the best glass around. Best of luck in your search

 

[Tulie]

Appreciate all the info and yes I am concerned about the internal adjustment. However, I have found a Burris base that will allow me to take my Ruger base to a Weaver base and that lets me use the Signature Zee rings with the inserts, thus hopefully my adjustment issue will no longer be an issue and I won't have to go to a 30mm tube. Other then the internal adjustment on the larger tube is it buying me anything else? Recoil won't be an issue with the 243 I'm planning to use.

That being said, I have been looking at the different varible's and do want something up to 20 or 24 but yes, nightforce, schmidt & bender, zeiss, although fantastic are not what I'm going to jump into right now.

What about the Burris line besides the black diamond? I looked through a 6x20 mill dot in the Fullfield II and it looked okay. What about the Signature line or the new signature select? I have heard a lot of good about the Bushnell 4200 and have looked through them as well and to my eye didn't see massive difference then the Burris. I do have a sightron on a 200 yard .22 and it is clear and works well for that setup but is only a 3x9.

Although the reviews are good on the Super Sniper I think I'll pass for now, no variable and I don't want to be stuck at either 16 which may not be enough at times or 20 which may be too much when it's hot here.

 

[Tulie]

Couple of other things that I didn't add. First, yes, once you get into quality optics going back is hard to swallow and no, my Ruger isn't the older flat top. It's one of the newer 77's in the varmint style. It's at the smith's right now getting a good going over and will come back with a good trigger, bedded and possibly action work so it's what I'm going to start with. Got the reloading down but want the glass on it to fit and match with everything else.

Thanks again everybody.

 

[Rtheurer]

T
Looks like you got some sound advice and have a good idea about what you need to do. I have one other aspect to think about now that you have headed down this path of what to buy and what to put together for your Long Range exploits. The scope will now possibly be to high to get a good cheek & head position on the stock while still looking through the scope. I see this time & time again. And it seems to be the same answer from the fella, Oh I can get my cheek up there fine. Then I see them with there bottom jaw bone riding the top of flat cheek piece of the factory stock. Inconsistent? most definitely. Think about putting a good tall cheek pad on the gun, weather it be home made or store bought. The super 56mm Obj. brought on this whole thing some time back.
For my pennies worth I like the 30mm main tubes for the elevation you get out of them. More than likely you wont need a tapered base or rings with a flat shooting 243 and 30mm main tube. I was in the same position you are right now in 1998. I purchased a 16x Super Sniper, from Tasco then) And used the living @%#^%$ out of it. its scratched and all beat up and still tracks right on the numbers to this day. For target shooting though a good Variable with a 30mm main tube, target turrets and a small reticle really limits what you can buy. I like the target dot so that really hampered my search over the years.
Do your self a favor and put a cheek piece on that rifle so it fits you right.
russ T