Bear Protection

[Lazydays]

My brother guides hunters in the Bob Marshal Wilderness area of Montana. He has been guiding for close to 30 years. During that time he has seen a few injury's related to the horses and mules he uses as part of the business of guiding. He came out of the hills last season with cracked ribs after being thrown from his horse.

He used to carry a Marlin Model 95 45/70 to finish game shot by his hunters. It had a western appeal and would be good medicine against a grizzly. As time and experience went on, he changed his mind and started carrying a Remington 870 12 gauge loaded with buckshot. His belief is that if a grizzly attacked him or his hunters, it would be so furious and fast that he would only have one or two shots at a very fast moving target. Hence the 12 gauge. If you can get a blast in the face of a charging grizzly, hopefully it will be enough to turn it around or kill it outright.

LE Hanson

a good read on shotguns and dangerous animals is from Capstick. He used slugs on lions and #2 buckshot on leopard (he also said a wounded leopard was the worst of the worst). But he was after very dense and heavy loads in his case.
gary

 

[BigDMT]

http://www.centerforwildlifeinformation.org/BeBearAware/BearSpray/bearspray.html

I read an article they did, I believe back in the 70's, about bullet penetration. There conclusion was 375H&H was the firearm of choice. They tested lots of different calibers and bullets from7mm to 458, in newspaper. The 375 had the best performance, with manageable recoil. The 358 Norma did not fair well, lack of factory ammo and poor performance of the bullets available gave it poor results. They did like the round and rifle and it was the only one they said with better bullets and ammo it would have scored much higher.

Yeah I've read that same article. The 358 Norma had pretty bad penetration. I bet my load would change the results of that test. I push the 225 gr Nosler Partition at 3050 fps from a 26" Lilja barrel. It's a cannon for sure. Plus it will shoot 5 shots in a row with no barrel cooling whatsoever into 1.5" at 300 yards so its no slouch on accuracy either.

I am building a 338-375 Ruger because their are no long range bullets available for the 35 cals. My norma is good to about 700 yards, then it starts dropping like a rock so hard it resembles the path of a mortar round more than anything else.

The 338-375 Ruger should give me the same energy or even a little more, but with the high BC of the Berger 250gr VLDs it should reach out a lot farther.

 

[Glenn Powell]

My 358 has a 21 inch barrel, long barrels around here just make it harder to bust brush. I don't know what kind of velocity I am getting, and don't really care, but I am pretty sure its enough, I still haven't worked out my issues with the crono. 75g IMR4350 with the 225 TSX, will keep em inside 2"@200 with scope set @5X. There is not many shots around these parts past 100 yards, unless hunting tidal flats, or alpine. Which reminds me, I have got to order some 275 A-Frames to try out.

 

[BigDMT]

My 358 has a 21 inch barrel, long barrels around here just make it harder to bust brush. I don't know what kind of velocity I am getting, and don't really care, but I am pretty sure its enough, I still haven't worked out my issues with the crono. 75g IMR4350 with the 225 TSX, will keep em inside 2"@200 with scope set @5X. There is not many shots around these parts past 100 yards, unless hunting tidal flats, or alpine. Which reminds me, I have got to order some 275 A-Frames to try out.

I made up my own load using a burn rate chart. Its not listed in any manual or website. Except here I guess cuz I'm gonna tell you :
I use 72gr of Hodgdon BLC-2 with the 225gr Partition.

I also found the best "consistent" accuracy by forming my brass from Winchester 300 win mag brass. The Norma 358 Norma brass always gave me a flier for some reason. Brass is a lot cheaper that way too, so its a win-win for me

Those A-frames should be punishing on moose, deer, and big bears. Good luck.

 

[pdhntr]

I live in northern Wisconsin and have been guiding bait sitters for bear for over 30 years. Often bear are shot at dusk and it is my job to go into the brush after dark, not knowing for sure whether the bear is dead or wounded. This happens way more than I would like. So far I have only had to defend myself once, but it made me consider what I do, and how to try to do it right.

I realize this is not the situation that was given by the OP, but the possible outcome remains the same if a mistake is made. So these are some of my thoughts on the subject. Right or wrong they work for me.

When I go into the brush after a bear, the lead person (me) is using a shotgun with buckshot. I use a Winchester pump filled to the brim. I want a backup shooter with a rifle, a shotgun with slugs or a heavy pistol in that order. I do not want someone behind me with buckshot or birdshot. If the worst happens, and the backup has to shoot because I am busy, I don’t want to be hit by stray projectiles.

If I was going to go hiking in bear country with another person, both should be armed. Not one. If only one is armed, then send the one with the bear spray in front. The person in the rear should not have a shotgun with buckshot, but something with a single projectile that can put down a bear if the spray does not work.

In my opinion, the plan between partners hiking in bear country is as important as the weapon choice.

In my experience and given the opportunity bear will leave the area if they hear you. It is important to make noise. If you can’t make noise for some reason, then make your weapon ready and proceed.

Jim

 

[BigDMT]

I live in northern Wisconsin and have been guiding bait sitters for bear for over 30 years. Often bear are shot at dusk and it is my job to go into the brush after dark, not knowing for sure whether the bear is dead or wounded. This happens way more than I would like. So far I have only had to defend myself once, but it made me consider what I do, and how to try to do it right.

I realize this is not the situation that was given by the OP, but the possible outcome remains the same if a mistake is made. So these are some of my thoughts on the subject. Right or wrong they work for me.

When I go into the brush after a bear, the lead person (me) is using a shotgun with buckshot. I use a Winchester pump filled to the brim. I want a backup shooter with a rifle, a shotgun with slugs or a heavy pistol in that order. I do not want someone behind me with buckshot or birdshot. If the worst happens, and the backup has to shoot because I am busy, I don’t want to be hit by stray projectiles.

If I was going to go hiking in bear country with another person, both should be armed. Not one. If only one is armed, then send the one with the bear spray in front. The person in the rear should not have a shotgun with buckshot, but something with a single projectile that can put down a bear if the spray does not work.

In my opinion, the plan between partners hiking in bear country is as important as the weapon choice.

In my experience and given the opportunity bear will leave the area if they hear you. It is important to make noise. If you can’t make noise for some reason, then make your weapon ready and proceed.

Jim

Very good advice Jim. You made some very good points about 2 person weapon tactics and gameplans that nobody had touched on yet. Well done sir

 

[Glenn Powell]

Yes, very good points. I have not had to go to in the brush for wounded bear, yet, and I pray it keeps going that way. I have had to crawl threw brush after a gut shot wolf though, on hands and knees The only thing I could have used was a hand gun, which I had, thankfully. Hunting bears, I go full tilt, with the largest most powerful weapons, stoked with the hardest hitting ammo I can shoot accurately.

 

[abishai]

I carry a set of brass knuckes and nerves of steel...............
top of the food chain, all american bad a$$

 

[BigDMT]

I carry a set of brass knuckes and nerves of steel...............
top of the food chain, all american bad a$$

You know....that might actually work against a mountain lion lol!

But against a grizzly bear that really wants to tango? I'd pay $50 on pay-per-view to see that bout. lol!

 

[nosualc]

When in bear country, going with a buddy or two is a very good idea.

+1

Just make sure one of your buddies runs slower than you.

-nosualc

 

[Glenn Powell]

Yes, always go with someone slower than you.
Granted guys, 98% of my bear encounters are with black bears, I will have 2 to 3 encounters a year with them jut from my front door to getting into my pickup. As soon as I step out my front door I am in bear country. I have had to catch myself from kicking the sillly critters because they are just feet from the door when I open it and startle me. I keep a can of spray in the door of my truck for those times when there is one there waiting for me when I get home. Problem bears are about as bad as raccoons down south, they get into everything! Had one a few years ago that learned how to open car doors. They found out after a door closed behind him and he destroyed the inside of the car. We even had one step out and walk through downtown last year after the cruse ships dumped 7000 people off. Search the Juneau empire, both made the front page. The last population report I read showed 3 black bears per square mile in the Juneau area, and 1 brown per 10 square miles. Do I see people do.stupid things? Without a doubt! I was riding my Honda out the road last year and there was a good sized black in the bar ditch eating grass with 6 cars stopped to watch and one fella approaching withen 20 feet to take pictures, ON FOOT!

 

[BigDMT]

Yeah walking up on a feeding bear is towards the top of list on "what not to do around bears"

 

[Steve Blair]

I've heard bears like a varied diet.

 

[Glenn Powell]

Typically in the spring they eat grass and vegetarians

 

[Steve Blair]

This is the only bear I'd like to have more of around the house.

 

[Glenn Powell]

Looks a little young for me, the ears are to close together looks like you won it in a match, if so Congrats.

 

[Steve Blair]

Thanks, Glenn. It is supposed to represent the now-extinct California Grizzly, still our state symbol. At least there's been no talk of "re-introducing" Coastal Browns to replace them.

 

[BigDMT]

Thanks, Glenn. It is supposed to represent the now-extinct California Grizzly, still our state symbol. At least there's been no talk of "re-introducing" Coastal Browns to replace them.

If they did re-introduce them and they had the same appetite as Montana grizzly bears, there wouldn't be many Californians left in the state.

I'm just messing with ya. It is true that I have heard about a lot of Californian's getting killed in the park though. maybe just coincidence.....maybe not :

 

[Steve Blair]

I'm just messing with ya. It is true that I have heard about a lot of Californian's getting killed in the park though. maybe just coincidence.....maybe not :

[br]
It's no coincidence. We have a massive budget deficit but a huge surplus of idiots. Come to think of it, maybe bringing 1200-1500 pound Alaskan Coastal Browns into California would be a good thing.

 

[BigDMT]

I'm just messing with ya. It is true that I have heard about a lot of Californian's getting killed in the park though. maybe just coincidence.....maybe not :

[br]
It's no coincidence. We have a massive budget deficit but a huge surplus of idiots. Come to think of it, maybe bringing 1200-1500 pound Alaskan Coastal Browns into California would be a good thing.

Hahaha!!! ;D