Bear spray 33% effective according to report
- Thread starter rammac
- Start date
Alex Wheeler
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Theres usually one or 2 attacks here locally a year. In most cases, its happens so fast that the guy had no time to use his weapon it seems. Whether you carry spray or a gun, its mostly just to make you feel better IMO.
It worked once for me and very well. Sow headed up my tree when her Cub spooked. She winded me and headed straight up my tree. I had a can in a holster and rather than throwing a few 10mm rounds down the tree at her, I unleashed the spray. Instantly she stopped and retreated. She, followed by her cub fled my area and I never saw her again. Not even on my camera. She was in the bait daily prior to that incident
I think once a bear commits to an attack on a human, there isn't much you can do. He'll need to be shot to cease the attack or he'll leave after the attack on his own. Either way, it's a bad scenario. Not sure where the data comes from on the spray being more effective for brown vs black bears but there isn't any truth to it. Hitting any animal or human attempting an attack with bear spray WILL deter the attack
This is called “fake news!”
TRY READING THE LINK I POSTED AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS CONVERSATION AND YOUR COMMENTS WONT LOOK SO FOOLISH.
Nobody is recommending that you charge a bear, that was a flippant comment I made from reading the actual field test data from a formal study on the efficacy of bear spray.
Bear spray is about 33% effective at deterring an actual bear attack, 66% of the time it doesn't do you a bit of good. If it worked for you once then congratulations but the odds are that it wont work the next two times that you use it defend yourself.
Anecdotal examples of how bear spray worked isn't valid proof that bear spray works all the time, it just APPEARED to work in that instance.
The information I've posted comes from an August 26, 2019 article in which the Wes Siler interviewed the author of the peer reviewed, scientific reports
"Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska"
"Efficacy of Firearms for Bear Deterrence in Alaska"
both scientific studies were written by Tom Smith.
Both of those reports are the widely known as the proof that bear spray is 96% effective at stopping bear attacks and that firearms aren't as effective as spray at stopping bear attacks.
Mr. Smith, the author of those reports, disagrees with those statements and says that his reports didn't prove anything of the sort. He is the person that says bear spray is only 33% effective at stopping a bear attack and that is based on actual bear attack data. He is the person that produced the chart that shows chasing a bear is more effective than spraying them.
Yes, some of you understand the information that I've posted but there are the less mentally agile that wont even bother to read the evidence because it takes too much time or effort. Before anybody ridicules the comments or makes light of the importance of what Mr. Smith has revealed, you need to recognize that the most important issue is simply that we have been lied to, bear spray does not make you invulnerable to bear attacks - and not only is that fantasy not true, it's dangerous and could lead to people making really bad choices when they are in bear country. I live in Montana, in the middle of grizzly country, and it's not uncommon to hear about people that have been mauled having deployed bear spray and still being injured. I know, people will say that deploying the spray kept the victim from being killed, but that's false logic, you can't prove a negative, you can't say what would have happened if the bear spray hadn't been used. But we also know that there are cases where bear spray was deployed and the bear still killed the victim, there are cases on record where the recovered bear was found to have capsicum in their lungs and on their fur. So that's proof that bear spray isn't 100% effective at stopping bear attacks.
So no, bear spray is not 100% effective and neither is a gun, and both are really useless in the hands of someone that can't deploy them properly. But the fact is that, when used properly, bear spray is only 33% effective at deterring a bear attack while firearms are somewhere between 76% and 96% effective at deterring a bear attack. Living with the reality that I might have to deal with a grizzly when I collect eggs from my chicken coop, I'd rather carry a sidearm than a can of bear spray.
Nobody is recommending that you charge a bear, that was a flippant comment I made from reading the actual field test data from a formal study on the efficacy of bear spray.
Bear spray is about 33% effective at deterring an actual bear attack, 66% of the time it doesn't do you a bit of good. If it worked for you once then congratulations but the odds are that it wont work the next two times that you use it defend yourself.
Anecdotal examples of how bear spray worked isn't valid proof that bear spray works all the time, it just APPEARED to work in that instance.
The information I've posted comes from an August 26, 2019 article in which the Wes Siler interviewed the author of the peer reviewed, scientific reports
"Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska"
"Efficacy of Firearms for Bear Deterrence in Alaska"
both scientific studies were written by Tom Smith.
Both of those reports are the widely known as the proof that bear spray is 96% effective at stopping bear attacks and that firearms aren't as effective as spray at stopping bear attacks.
Mr. Smith, the author of those reports, disagrees with those statements and says that his reports didn't prove anything of the sort. He is the person that says bear spray is only 33% effective at stopping a bear attack and that is based on actual bear attack data. He is the person that produced the chart that shows chasing a bear is more effective than spraying them.
Yes, some of you understand the information that I've posted but there are the less mentally agile that wont even bother to read the evidence because it takes too much time or effort. Before anybody ridicules the comments or makes light of the importance of what Mr. Smith has revealed, you need to recognize that the most important issue is simply that we have been lied to, bear spray does not make you invulnerable to bear attacks - and not only is that fantasy not true, it's dangerous and could lead to people making really bad choices when they are in bear country. I live in Montana, in the middle of grizzly country, and it's not uncommon to hear about people that have been mauled having deployed bear spray and still being injured. I know, people will say that deploying the spray kept the victim from being killed, but that's false logic, you can't prove a negative, you can't say what would have happened if the bear spray hadn't been used. But we also know that there are cases where bear spray was deployed and the bear still killed the victim, there are cases on record where the recovered bear was found to have capsicum in their lungs and on their fur. So that's proof that bear spray isn't 100% effective at stopping bear attacks.
So no, bear spray is not 100% effective and neither is a gun, and both are really useless in the hands of someone that can't deploy them properly. But the fact is that, when used properly, bear spray is only 33% effective at deterring a bear attack while firearms are somewhere between 76% and 96% effective at deterring a bear attack. Living with the reality that I might have to deal with a grizzly when I collect eggs from my chicken coop, I'd rather carry a sidearm than a can of bear spray.
I'll say it wasn't a grizzly in my case. I always carry a side arm while either archery hunting bears or in bear country. I'm a believer that a firearm is a better form of defense IF the person carrying is trained with that sidearm, otherwise it's of no better use than the spray. I was not going to kill a sow with Cubs over a possible bluff charge up my tree. Had she made it to my stand and the incident became more critical, I would have shot the bear. There's more cases of black bear sows bluff charging than a full attack. Grizzly's I have zero experience with but while hunting in grizzly country, i always carry my pistol
Bears, like dogs, don't have sweat glands like humans, which means that the chemical sprays have no effect unless sprayed directly in the eyes or an open mouth. I can tell you that I have carried several different ASR's from pupper capsicum to cs/cap to oc/cs/cn blends and that when it comes to vicsious dogs, if a vicious dog is charging you spray will not stop if for a few seconds it will keep on coming. If they get some in their mouth or directly inhale in their nose, they will back off for a bit to hack and sneeze.
I don't expect a bear to be any less determined than a dog. If spray wards it off it is strictly because it surprised/confused it, the small window for it to be effective is 3-4 seconds after it is deployed. Now as one gentleman said that it scared the momma bear off, it probably did. It scared her and she got a little pain from it so he wasn't worth her trouble and left.
I read an article a few years back that was about handgun loads for bear defense. This guy actually did some research into actual bear shootings and found that most people were using things like jhp's and jsp's for bear defense when what was needed was FMJ's or hard cast lead wadcutters. He did penetration testing with plywood/telephone books to simulate bone of a bears skull and was getting 12-15" penetration with 357's and 44's with hard cast lead slugs. I think that is plenty enough to take out a bear if you do your part.
Now most people will loose their heads in a stressful situation and unless they practice for it they will not be able to put rounds into the bears skull where they are needed. Even with a rifle if you hit It in the vitals and the bear is determined it will take a while for it to bleed out before it stops chewing on you.
I don't expect a bear to be any less determined than a dog. If spray wards it off it is strictly because it surprised/confused it, the small window for it to be effective is 3-4 seconds after it is deployed. Now as one gentleman said that it scared the momma bear off, it probably did. It scared her and she got a little pain from it so he wasn't worth her trouble and left.
I read an article a few years back that was about handgun loads for bear defense. This guy actually did some research into actual bear shootings and found that most people were using things like jhp's and jsp's for bear defense when what was needed was FMJ's or hard cast lead wadcutters. He did penetration testing with plywood/telephone books to simulate bone of a bears skull and was getting 12-15" penetration with 357's and 44's with hard cast lead slugs. I think that is plenty enough to take out a bear if you do your part.
Now most people will loose their heads in a stressful situation and unless they practice for it they will not be able to put rounds into the bears skull where they are needed. Even with a rifle if you hit It in the vitals and the bear is determined it will take a while for it to bleed out before it stops chewing on you.
another interesting view.
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5kYEUCWVy
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/de...s-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5kYEUCWVy
Brians356
Silver $$ Contributor
That's "spray-n-pray". You spray; the bear prays.
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Brians356
Silver $$ Contributor
"There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Answer me this: What percentage of neighborhood dog encounters result in a dog attack? Same question for grizzly bears.
Follow-up: What percentage of grizzly bear attacks are fatal vs neighborhood dog attacks?
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Brians356
Silver $$ Contributor
Yes, if you position the muzzle right behind its ear.
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I have not personally used it (or even ever laid my hands on a can of bear spray..) but there was recently a bear attack in YNP and this a blurb from the account:
"Two of the hikers immediately discharged their canisters of bear spray and the sow and cub left the area after an encounter which lasted about a minute."
I would say that is about as effective as it gets
"Two of the hikers immediately discharged their canisters of bear spray and the sow and cub left the area after an encounter which lasted about a minute."
I would say that is about as effective as it gets
Trust me, you don't ever want to let yourself get close enough to have to use pepper spray. Eyes and ears open, common sense and situational awareness should prevent the need for spray. I would carry a policeman's or referee's whistle with you also. In the event a bear does approach you, blow the whistle in rapid, short, irregular bursts to try and scare the bear off. They tend not to like noise and tend to shy away from humans on the trails so be noisy as you hike. It's encountering a mom with cubs that is the most dangerous situation. Another noise maker is a portable boat horn - 5 inches high with a gas canister of 1 inch diameter, press the top like a spray can and it emits a high, loud shriek that will hurt your ears. Easy to carry, fits in a pocket, available in most boat supply stores around $10.
Enjoy!!
Enjoy!!
holstil
Silver $$ Contributor
I can't understand why anybody would choose anything other then a firearm for defense in bear country Unless your an anti gunner.
A grizzly bear is friggin huge! And a startled or pissed off one, well, ill take what little chance I have with a gun. I don't give a crap about statistics or what some "expert" says. They've obviously never been attacked. The only stat that matters is the one that's eating you.
A grizzly bear is friggin huge! And a startled or pissed off one, well, ill take what little chance I have with a gun. I don't give a crap about statistics or what some "expert" says. They've obviously never been attacked. The only stat that matters is the one that's eating you.
yes, after reading the above claim of 97% success with handguns I would always have a firearm.
and it is nerve wracking when you are a walking bait station after a moose kill.
and they all move quite fast. black bear hunting last week and many vanished in a second with no more than a 20ft grunt and jump.
and it is nerve wracking when you are a walking bait station after a moose kill.
and they all move quite fast. black bear hunting last week and many vanished in a second with no more than a 20ft grunt and jump.
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