Bear Protection

[Glenn Powell]

I just had a conversation will with the "new guy" here at work. He is planning on going for a hike with his wife and kids this weekend. His plan was to pack his pistol gripped 12 gage shot gun, loaded with bird shot/slug/shot/slug. I hope I don't have to explain what is totally wrong with this set up to you guys, needless to say, piss poor decision on his part. Bear defence is a common question from newbies around these parts. My preferred bear defence is simple, bear spray. Anyone can use it, its more effective, cheeper, and lighter than a shotgun, or big bore hand cannon. Hitting a bear charging at you faster than a race horse and hitting a bouncing target smaller than a baseball is something only a hand full of shooters are capable of, sometimes. Following up on a wounded bear is something all together different, you are trying to finish it off, not protect family members. For bear protection use the spray, for hunting bears use the largest most powerful rifle you can handle effectively and make that first shot count.

 

[TheOtherZilla]

Bear spray is ok till the wind is wrong and you spray yourself.. NOT fun. My bear repellant is a Marlin 1894 45-70..

 

[scott in ohio]

Do you know how to identify bear scat? It smells like pepper spray and has little bells in it.

 

[signut]

" IF " I was in Alaska, like the first poster, I'd have both the spray and a short handy BIG BORE lever gun or a damn dependable shotgun full of slugs and sabots. . The bears up there would eat the entire family and still want desserts. Just my .02

 

[Lazydays]

a lot of this has to do with whatkind of a bear you have in mind. Black bear are easy to scare off, and what you do with them will make you part of the food chain up on the beartooth highway. I used to take a .444 Marlin loaded with near max 300 grain solid tipped bullets. But after hearing about a guide being mauled by a grizzley while carrying one of them (never got a round off so I later learned), I switched over to a .450 marlin and 400 grain Speers. Recoil is serious, and the noise from the ported barrel is ear splitting alone. In a shotgun I'd be using 3" slugs. I went with the 400 grain bullet due to the sectional density alone
gary

 

[CaptainMal]

So you are going to STOP a charging bear with spray???

I'll take the shotgun with 00 buck up close or slugs a bit farther out. The shotgun rules.

As for recovering a charging bear you hit...nuts to that bear. You weren't hunting it in the first place and surely don't want the darn thing. Let the creature rot in peace. Report the bear carcass, not have others read reports about YOUR carcass.

 

[Glenn Powell]

We had a fella killed here a few years back, he was carried a Marlin 45/70, they found a pile of unfired rounds and an empty rifle with the safety still on.

Wounding an animal and just leaving it to rot is just not my kinda way to do things, to each his own I guess. And a wounded bear is far more temperamental than a healthy one, leaving a wounded bear puts others in danger.

Yea blacks are pretty easy to scare off, sometimes. I had one in the back yard moaning and chomping its teeth at me once, spray scared him off though. I also turned a brown bear sow with three cubs around with a cigarette once. I spotted her walking across the flats directly towards the trail I was on. Lit a cigarette, the wind was behind me luckily, she stood up, turned around and beat feet. Regardless of what you prefer to use, use it properly. But bear spray dose work, effectively.

 

[people]

I know down in the lower 48 having bells on your walking stick really help keep the bears away. I always have bear spray with me when in the bear lands. I also carry rifle with me.

I do not know how well spray works on bears but on a person who probably is on drugs it works like a champ.

 

[BigDMT]

Well Glen, if you are in Juneau like your user name states, you should know that a lot Alaskan fishing and hunting guides carry either a shotgun or a short barreled 500 S&W or 454 Casull handgun for bear defense. They live most their lives out there amongst the bears, id trust them.

I live in Montana and I carry a handgun for defense. Always have, always will.

A 12 gauge shotgun saved my buddie's life here 5 years ago when he was hunting grouse in the mountains and got charged by a large sow grizzly with 2 cubs. Dropped her dead in her tracks only 7 feet from where he stood. After the investigation Fish and Game wardens told him he's lucky he had that shotgun because he'd have never stopped her with spray.

 

[Glenn Powell]

Well Big, yea I live in Juneau, going on 13 years. Have had few personal encounters to boot. The fishing guide do pack guns, mostly for show though, got to keep up the image. So do the hunting guides, mostly for back up when a client can't get the job done the first time. The gray matter between the ears is your first defense. It would be irresponsible of me to suggest to someone with little to no firearm experience to go out and buy the largest hand cannon his pocket book can spare. He will not be able to shoot it accurately enough, and just make matters worse. Personally, if its bear season and I have a tag in my pocket I pack both rifle and spray, otherwise I just carry spray.

 

[BigDMT]

Well Big, yea I live in Juneau, going on 13 years. Have had few personal encounters to boot. The fishing guide do pack guns, mostly for show though, got to keep up the image. So do the hunting guides, mostly for back up when a client can't get the job done the first time. The gray matter between the ears is your first defense. It would be irresponsible of me to suggest to someone with little to no firearm experience to go out and buy the largest hand cannon his pocket book can spare. He will not be able to shoot it accurately enough, and just make matters worse. Personally, if its bear season and I have a tag in my pocket I pack both rifle and spray, otherwise I just carry spray.

I just can't agree. Nobody practices using bear spray much either, so how do you know he can deploy it quickly and effectively under a stressful situation? Probably no more than you know if he could fire a handgun accurately. It is very unwise to carry any item for defense in the wild that you are unpracticed with. If he buys a handgun, of course he will need to practice with it before he goes venturing amongst bears. Nobody buys a gun and just takes off into the woods with it unless they are an absolute fool. But how many people do you know purchase multiple cans of bear spray just to practice deploying it and actually spraying it to know that actual effective range and spray pattern? I don't know anyone.....So is that not foolish as well?

The beauty of a powerful handgun over bear spray is that you can give warning shots to deter a bear who is threatening you because they most often will "bluff charge" before they actually come at you. I've seen many shows where a fishing guide fired a couple rounds from a large handgun to deter a bear coming after a client on the shore line. It worked very well. Then if they do decide to keep coming, the guide was ready to rock. Hard to "warning spray" a bear from 50 yards.

I also understand that they can come at you so fast out of brush that you would not have time to react with a firearm. But you wouldn't have time to get spray out of the holster, pull the pin and depress the lever either. So at that point playing dead is your best option until you get a window to move freely again.

Tomato, tamoto I guess. I do what i feel is comfortable and you can do what makes you feel comfortable. Let's just pray that neither one of us ever comes into a situation where a bear is at full charge and going to strike

 

[Lazydays]

close to 15 years ago I was up on the Beartooth checking out some lakes to fish in the following year. I had a pretty good idea of where I was going to look, and a camera and a camcorder. Went down this one long trail in 4 wheel drive low range for what seemed like forever (probably two and a half miles). Forest ranger gave me a pep talk on what to watch out for and what not to do, and I did pretty much everything he said to do. But I was armed with a camera, and a notebook. The place was littered with these silver grey colored boulders. I got out of the Blazer when I came upto a lake and started shooting pictures and talking into the mic of the camcorder. All of a sudden this huge boulder stood up and looked at me with that "what are you doing here look!" He was almost the same color as the boulders, and needless to say I was out of there. Must have backed up a third of a mile before I got turned around. I vowed then and there, that I was never going back there alone again, and never unarmed. I left the place and hit the snake river and ran into a sow that never knew I was nearby. On the way back I fished the Lamar Valley and then on over to the Black Hills and Tongue River. When I got back home there was a dozen emails waiting on my from buddies near Ennis Montana. Wanted to know if I was alright! Of course I was! I made a call the next morning, only to find out that a bear killed a hiker on that same exact lake the day after I was there!

Now if I go back up there, I have either the .444, or the .450 with me, and always go with somebody. I use a 400 grain Speer bullet in the .450 that is doing about 1900fps. The other load is a 300 grain solid tipped bullet at 2100fps. I shoot the .444 better as I can manage the recoil much better, but also know that the 450 will turn him in a heart beat.

Be safe as ole griz ain't got anykind of a sense of humor
gary

 

[284driver]

I had a nightmare about this last night. I never have nightmares. Wish I didn't read this thread before I went to bed.

 

[Glenn Powell]

The worst thing I ever did was read Bear Tails, scary stuff in those books. After being around them, I don't really fear them, I respect them. Fishing with a rifle is cumbersome, it will eventually end up leaning against a log out of the way, handguns are nice, but wearing a pack with waste belt is uncomfortable, I just can't get used to shoulder holsters. Lazydays, you backing out was the smartest thing you could have done. The odds are that those hikers that were killed did not respect the bears comfort zone. You could see this kind of stuff daily around here in the summer with the tourists, they act as though they are in a zoo. I read and hear of lots of bear attacks, I still haven't heard of one where the bear was properly sprayed and still pressed the attack. They just don't get reported.

 

[Steve Blair]

I read and hear of lots of bear attacks, I still haven't heard of one where the bear was properly sprayed and still pressed the attack. They just don't get reported.

[br]
What if the bear does not agree that your spraying is proper?

 

[Glenn Powell]

Then I guess we will just have to sit down and discuss the proper methods

 

[Steve Blair]

I have enough problems with a dog that outweighs me. I think I'll leave big bears to folks with better negotiating skills. [br]
Speaking of nightmares; I had a few after watching "The Edge." However unrealistic, the idea of a relentless, vengeful, 1500 pound bear pursuing you is truly the stuff of nightmares. The only good part was seeing Alec Baldwin's character die.

 

[Glenn Powell]

LOL!! ;D I haven't seen that one, I tend to stay away from those kinda flicks, Hollywood is totally clueless, so was that moron Timothy Treadwell, for that matter. Bears will come to "The Dinner Bell" though, now that will scare the pudding out of ya, trust me on that one Elbow deep skinning and quartering a deer while a beasty is wolfing and moaning in the brush ain't much fun.

 

[Lazydays]

The worst thing I ever did was read Bear Tails, scary stuff in those books. After being around them, I don't really fear them, I respect them. Fishing with a rifle is cumbersome, it will eventually end up leaning against a log out of the way, handguns are nice, but wearing a pack with waste belt is uncomfortable, I just can't get used to shoulder holsters. Lazydays, you backing out was the smartest thing you could have done. The odds are that those hikers that were killed did not respect the bears comfort zone. You could see this kind of stuff daily around here in the summer with the tourists, they act as though they are in a zoo. I read and hear of lots of bear attacks, I still haven't heard of one where the bear was properly sprayed and still pressed the attack. They just don't get reported.

honestly, I have zero desire to hunt a grizzley, but if you do then so be it! That bear was still the biggest bear I've ever seen to this very day, and I'd put him in the 600lb. area. He made the sow grizzley I saw in the following year look small. I'm a rabid fly fisherman, and usually will hit eight to ten states a year, but will not fish up there without somebody with me.
gary

 

[Glenn Powell]

Gary, that is extreamly smart to fish with a buddy, don't forget the spray Won't be long now and the hatch will be kicking in ;D The lakes behind my house will be thawing out here pretty soon, and the cutthroat will be HUNGRY! All this talk of bears made me hungry, just got finished cooking up a big batch of Growling Chilli, 8)