Barrel tuners. Good or a waste of time?

[Gene Beggs]

Gene, do you get a sense that by doing so you have a bit less sharp recoil, or less tendency for the rifle to torque in the front rest ? Would you expect less amplitude in the initial pressure spike ?

I don't see how a change in seating depth could affect recoil or torque in the front rest.

Amplitude in the initial pressure spike? I don't know. I have no test equipment that would let me experiment with that.

Gene Beggs

 

[seymour fish]

I don't see how a change in seating depth could affect recoil or torque in the front rest.

Amplitude in the initial pressure spike? I don't know. I have no test equipment that would let me experiment with that.

Gene Beggs

Just trying to connect the dots, Gene. Thanks for your perceptions

 

[Michael Huebner]

Is anyone else doing this?

Powder yes, seating depth no

 

[Bindi2]

We’re talking about different jam lengths giving different results. If a .025 and .035 jam pushed the bullet back to the same point there wouldnt be a difference in the target which there is so we know thats a falsehood

A .035 jam would be further back in the case than a .025 jam so a different result would occur.

 

[mikeeg02]

A .035 jam would be further back in the case than a .025 jam so a different result would occur.

You're going to have to show your work on that one....

Edit: you do realize he said .025 and .035 jam, and not .025 and .035 FROM jam?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

A .035 jam would be further back in the case than a .025 jam so a different result would occur.

No

But youre right itll be a different result

 

[Tim Singleton]

Something to consider that sometimes gets overlooked. Most of the folks who read this forum do not have rifles that are extremely accurate such as those shot in short range benchrest competition. Also, an even smaller number use wind flags habitually. Most don't even own them. Add to that those who shoot 600-1000 yards where wind flags similar to short range are not practical. Reading this thread I sometimes wonder if other readers are somehow expecting their rifles to magically begin to produce one hole groups @ 100-200 yards or that 100 yard shooters are expecting 1/4 MOA groups. I think the tendency is to do something different and experience a small group, then think you have discovered the holy grail. Tuners do work well and can short cut some of the processes. But I personally know some of the posters on this thread and even though they know how to tune with powder, seating and tuners they still don't win every time they compete. To be where we all wish to be requires an accurate rifle, superior optics, a well tuned load, perfect bench manners and after all that...…..you still have to read the wind and the light.

There is another active thread about barrel cleaning. We would do well to read it. Sometimes we convince ourselves that some small thing we've done like clean the primer pockets or take that extra .0001 off the neck when turning, is the reason we just shot that .1 group. The more likely reason is that the wind between 75 and 85 yards gusted another 2 mph and blew the last two in the group. There is no substitute for practice and wind reading skills. Without them all the mechanical advantages in the world won't get you the fake wood. And the old guy using a rear bag that looks like a half filled sock will still kick your ass because he knows what the wind is telling him.....and he's watching the flags that belong to the guy next to him because he's gotten tired of placing flags for himself.

This is a great thread and there is a lot to learn here. But to win you still have to read the wind. There isn't a tuner for that.

Rick

Rick
Great post !
I know this is a tuner thread. But I think this is relevant to the discussion, one of the worst things we can do IMO to set the use of tuners back is for people to think all they have to do is screw it on and go
If they do that they will be disappointed and give up on them

These are some recent targets, pictures are worth a thousand words
the seating depth was good for second place the day before for HV100
It wasn’t working at all the next day at 200 just big globs no amount of powder changing or tuner twisting will help the glob shotgun groups
But a seating depth change(last two targets on left) sometimes will get you in the game. At least then it was all on me to watch my flags
Tuners work but you still gotta have enough time in to know when to make a bigger change

Edit, to say it’s hard to imagine this same thing doesn’t happen to guys at 600 or 1000 yards

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Edit, to say it’s hard to imagine this same thing doesn’t happen to guys at 600 or 1000 yards

It does, but like wind and cleaning if you ignore it then itll go away

 

[BartsBullets]

Rick
Great post !
I know this is a tuner thread. But I think this is relevant to the discussion, one of the worst things we can do IMO to set the use of tuners back is for people to think all they have to do is screw it on and go
If they do that they will be disappointed and give up on them

These are some recent targets, pictures are worth a thousand words
the seating depth was good for second place the day before for HV100
It wasn’t working at all the next day at 200 just big globs no amount of powder changing or tuner twisting will help the glob shotgun groups
But a seating depth change(last two targets on left) sometimes will get you in the game. At least then it was all on me to watch my flags
Tuners work but you still gotta have enough time in to know when to make a bigger change

Edit, to say it’s hard to imagine this same thing doesn’t happen to guys at 600 or 1000 yards

Tim,

It does happen to 600 and 1000 yards guys. But because the way the matches are run (course of fire) and with all the extra Real estate it’s difficult to figure out. Often your shooting targets 3 and 4, before you’ve seen targets 1 and 2. Also what is common knowledge among short range guys (adjusting powder to tune the rifle, reading windflags, making changes to your load based on how your groups form) is very uncommon knowledge to long range shooters. Many long range shooters do not believe that their guns go out of tune. Once you get a gun tuned you’re good for the rest of the year. In actuality the long range guns stay in tune much easier then our PPCs and are usually no more then .3 tenths or so out of tune. Many of the powders change velocity enough over the course of a match that at some point it probably will be in tune.

But the top guys in 600 and 1000 yards figure out a away to keep their rifles competitively tuned. They have their own system...cartridge, rifle, powder, Bullet combination that they know what to do with and how to keep it Shooting.

Bart

 

[CharlieNC]

Rick
Great post !
I know this is a tuner thread. But I think this is relevant to the discussion, one of the worst things we can do IMO to set the use of tuners back is for people to think all they have to do is screw it on and go
If they do that they will be disappointed and give up on them

These are some recent targets, pictures are worth a thousand words
the seating depth was good for second place the day before for HV100
It wasn’t working at all the next day at 200 just big globs no amount of powder changing or tuner twisting will help the glob shotgun groups
But a seating depth change(last two targets on left) sometimes will get you in the game. At least then it was all on me to watch my flags
Tuners work but you still gotta have enough time in to know when to make a bigger change

Edit, to say it’s hard to imagine this same thing doesn’t happen to guys at 600 or 1000 yards

I'm a novice compared to you guys, but I never seen such a dramatic shotgun pattern which is transformed into a shooter with a minor depth change. Clearly a combination of specs / load on the edge. What do you think caused such major sensitivity?

 

[Tim Singleton]

I'm a novice compared to you guys, but I never seen such a dramatic shotgun pattern which is transformed into a shooter with a minor depth change. Clearly a combination of specs / load on the edge. What do you think caused such major sensitivity?

I was shooting at touch the day before and it was shooting well.
Their was a cold front coming thru the next day humidity was higher
The touch group just blew up. You can’t see in the picture the sighted bulls are filled up try different powder charges and turning tuner none of that helped
I knew it shot ok at .015” in from touch. Nothing to loose by giving that a try and it shot much better.
I can’t answer your question on why the group blew up at that depth but it did

 

[Ccrider]

That BOSS probably sat everyone’s acceptance of tuners back 20 years!

Interesting comment. Years ago I bought a White Gold Medallian with Boss. Still have it and it still shoots bugholes. Once adjusted, I have not touched the Boss in years. The most accurate factory rifle I have owned. Horrible on ears, especially bystander's.

 

[Elwood]

A quick question from someone with limited barrel tuner experience. Are barrel tuners specific to the barrel once set or the load? The name suggests it's the barrel but common sense tells me they are specific to the load, if you change the load with powder or projectiles the tune will be different albeit close?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

A quick question from someone with limited barrel tuner experience. Are barrel tuners specific to the barrel once set or the load? The name suggests it's the barrel but common sense tells me they are specific to the load, if you change the load with powder or projectiles the tune will be different albeit close?

If you change the load you'll need to read tune but yes, it'll be very close..as in within 1-5 marks.

 

[Elwood]

That's what I thought, many thanks Mike.