Barrel tuners. Good or a waste of time?

[gunsandgunsmithing]

What is that target? Tuner adjustments? Obviously a tuner, powder, seating, ext changes bullet exit timing relative muzzle position, I look at tuners as a barrel length adjusters. Which is why they seem to act like seating adjustments, IMO. What I mean in regards to changing a barrels vibration is that it does not seem like we can change the basic vibration pattern that effects a bullet. We can do a lot of different things to a barrel and we dont see much change in how a cartridge reacts to powder changes. Node spacing stays pretty much the same. Im not the tuner expert so my comments are not based on how tuners work, rather hanging weights or playing with contours. I think amplitude is where we should focus. But Im not sure that will improve a great tune, but it helps an out of tune load hold better.

Yes, it's moving the tuner, presumably 1 mark at a time. Greg would have to confirm that @GSPV

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I could be way off but I look at that as changing the vibration pattern timing with bullet exit timing. But the basic vibration is not changed much, or at least the vibration that effects the bullet.

 

[BenPerfected]

Yes, it's moving the tuner, presumably 1 mark at a time. Greg would have to confirm that @GSPV

Mike, was the tuner turned all in one direction?....out?
Sprague

 

[Gene Beggs]

I’ve got an Ezell on all my rifles! I shoot them in competition from 100 to 1000 yards!

Bart

This statement by Bart Sauter (Bart's Bullets) tells you what he thinks about tuners, especially those made by Mike Ezell.

Gene Beggs

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I could be way off but I look at that as changing the vibration pattern timing with bullet exit timing. But the basic vibration is not changed much, or at least the vibration that effects the bullet.

It doesn't take much at all.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Mike, was the tuner turned all in one direction?....out?
Sprague

I don't know but hopefully Greg will answer this. It was his test.

 

[butchlambert]

I don't know but hopefully Greg will answer this. It was his test.

Did you get my email?

 

[savagedasher]

I won't disagree but I think the sine wave is pretty clear in this photo. To me, it appears to be following the frequency change and bullet exit times, like one would expect. The photo is sideways....And that's one accurate rifle, too!

. What line was the aiming point and whet did you shooter right to left or left to right

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

This statement by Bart Sauter (Bart's Bullets) tells you what he thinks about tuners, especially those made by Mike Ezell.

Gene Beggs

...and I certainly hope it stays that way. I regret us getting even the slightest bit sideways over this. I think we mostly agree and it's a shame it went like it did. Perhaps he'll share when he gets ready and has the time. My goal is not to say anyone's method is right or wrong but to keep things as simple and understandable as possible, while staying with what I've found to work pretty much across the board. I sincerely wish that we will all use tuners and share what we find. They're a great tool to have and I think most will agree that we are beyond much of the debate about whether or not tuners work and have moved into, fine tuning of the process of making them work to their fullest potential.

 

[Uthink Uknow]

For my Beggs I made up a stencil for my Marks-a-lot electric etcher. I etch the clock markings from 1 to 12 on the face of the tuner disc facing the shooter. I also etch a witness mark on the top of the barrel at the threads for the tuner. A move for me is about half an hour or one twenty fourth of a rotation during the course of a match. I tune to density altitude and move one hour per difference of 250 density altitude change. And down and out, down on density, out on the tuner. Gene Beggs taught me everything I know.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Did you get my email?

I just replied Butch. Thanks!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

. What line was the aiming point and whet did you shooter right to left or left to right

Again, a question for the tester. Maybe he'll see this later.

 

[savagedasher]

Again, a question for the tester. Maybe he'll see this later.

Thanks I have turned from the point of aim for years

 

[Bart B.]

What I mean in regards to changing a barrels vibration is that it does not seem like we can change the basic vibration pattern that effects a bullet.

My thoughts on that.... We do change it.

The barrel's basic vibration pattern changes when its profile changes. Moving the tuner does that. Closer it is to the receiver, the higher its vibration frequency most effecting muzzle angle when bullets exit. Bullets leave on a different part of the muzzle axis cycle.

From Varmint Al: https://www.varmintal.com/atune.htm

ADJUSTING THE TUNER....

As the tuner is adjusted by moving it farther to the right (away from receiver) on the barrel (farther from the breach), the frequencies of both modes decreases. Here is a table of the resulting Mode frequencies as the muzzle tuner is located at the original position and then moved to the right 0.1" and then 0.2". A separate calculation was done with the tuner removed as a base condition which has a much higher frequency in both Mode 1 and Mode 2 but a lower frequency ratio of Mode 2 to Mode 1 of 3.804. Not only does the tuner lower the frequencies, but it changes the ratio between the two frequencies.

 

[hpshooter]

'Who remembers the tuning screws in Remington 40X match rifle's fore end tip at 4:30 and 7:30 on the barrel with click adjustments to put different force on the barrel?"

They are in a 40X prone stock that is on my wife's .308. Picked the stock up at Camp Perry in '98 0r '99. Wish I had bought several more. We have never experimented with using the screws, they are backed out below the barrel channel so they won't contact the barrel.

Read an article years ago in the Rifleman (when it actually had instructional articles!) about using a volt/ohm meter to establishing when the screws just touched the barrel to establish a baseline.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

'Who remembers the tuning screws in Remington 40X match rifle's fore end tip at 4:30 and 7:30 on the barrel with click adjustments to put different force on the barrel?"

They are in a 40X prone stock that is on my wife's .308. Picked the stock up at Camp Perry in '98 0r '99. Wish I had bought several more. We have never experimented with using the screws, they are backed out below the barrel channel so they won't contact the barrel.

Read an article years ago in the Rifleman (when it actually had instructional articles!) about using a volt/ohm meter to establishing when the screws just touched the barrel to establish a baseline.

I always thought those were for 22rimfire 40x rifles. Maybe because every one ive ever seen with them were rimfires and ive never seen a centerfire come with them. I admit most of the 40x centerfires ive came across didnt have the factory stock and the rimfires that had the factory stock had them. I have one of each hanging on my wall- one with screws and one without. I know it takes one group to know to keep them backed off on a rimfire

 

[butchlambert]

'Who remembers the tuning screws in Remington 40X match rifle's fore end tip at 4:30 and 7:30 on the barrel with click adjustments to put different force on the barrel?"

They are in a 40X prone stock that is on my wife's .308. Picked the stock up at Camp Perry in '98 0r '99. Wish I had bought several more. We have never experimented with using the screws, they are backed out below the barrel channel so they won't contact the barrel.

Read an article years ago in the Rifleman (when it actually had instructional articles!) about using a volt/ohm meter to establishing when the screws just touched the barrel to establish a baseline.

Like this

 

[josh shrum]

I am under the impression that you tune for powder charge and seating depth without the tuner screwed on. Once you have your load, then you add the tuner in to the mix.

What say you, tuner experts?

That is my preferred method.

Tune the load with the barrel tuner off.

Once the load is tuned to what the barrel likes best, put the barrel tuner on and find the best setting.

Then try changing your load in small increments at that tuner setting.

To date, I have not found that tweaking the load after finding the optimal barrel tuner setting has netted me any improvements.

I have found that some (1 for sure) barrels are incredibly forgiving of these changes, while others will punish me for them.

It is not a surprise to me that the more forgiving barrels needed less tuner adjustment at matches and gave me overall better performance.

But this is only in 30BR, across a handful of barrels, using the same bullets/powder/primer. So please take my extremely small sample size for what you paid to read it!

Josh

 

[Bart B.]

I think you have to tune across each load.

... then use the one with smallest velocity spread to adjust the tuner for.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

My thoughts on that.... We do change it.

The barrel's basic vibration pattern changes when its profile changes. Moving the tuner does that. Closer it is to the receiver, the higher its vibration frequency most effecting muzzle angle when bullets exit. Bullets leave on a different part of the muzzle axis cycle.

From Varmint Al: https://www.varmintal.com/atune.htm

Bart, if that was true, you could screw it in and tune the rifle, finding 2 nodes. Then screw it out and find 2 nodes. Those nodes should have different spacing so far as load or velocity goes as the frequency should be changed. In my experience they wont. Now Im not saying we have not changed frequency, Im am saying the amount it has been changed is not enough to effect what we can see on target.