Barrel tuners ? (F Open / F TR)

[rmist]

How many of you are using a barrel tuner in F Open or F TR ? I haven't seen any on the rifles at our local matches. But it would seem with all the other disciplines using them why aren't the F open and FTR folks using them? Seems like a good idea. Would you use a clamp on or a threaded version if you were going to use one? Other thoughts ?
Thanks again

 

[Mozella]

I put a Lowey tuner on my 22 LR rifle and noticed an immediate improvement in precision before I ever tried tuning it. In other words, it helps no matter where I position the weight. Of course, after a lot of fine tuning, I've found the "sweet spot" and the rifle shoots MUCH better with the tuner than without.

Using that experience as inspiration I bought another tuner when I bought a Howa 1500 in .223 caliber which I sometimes shoot in F/TR class. I developed a couple of good hand load recipes first and then tried a similar tuner bored to fit the .223 barrel. I could not find any tuner setting which was an improvement over the bare barrel, so abandoned the idea; frankly with some disappointment.

Just two weeks ago, I decided to make another tuner test, so I carefully loaded 150 identical rounds and performed a measured series of accuracy tests, first without the tuner, then with the positioning collar only, and finally with the tuner weight set at 11 different positions.

This test conformed the earlier one and I was unable to find any tuner setting which was better than the bare barrel and most settings were quite a bit worse.

So my experience with my 22LR and my .223 are exact opposites from one another. I know for certain that the tuner works on one but not the other. Of course, that doesn't mean that all 22LRs need a tuner and no .223s will work with a tuner, but at least my experience might provide you with a couple of data points.

It is entirely possible that a tuner on a .223 might be appropriate if you were using factory ammo rather than hand loads. I will leave that experiment to others.

 

[avidflyer]

How many of you are using a barrel tuner in F Open or F TR ? I haven't seen any on the rifles at our local matches. But it would seem with all the other disciplines using them why aren't the F open and FTR folks using them? Seems like a good idea. Would you use a clamp on or a threaded version if you were going to use one? Other thoughts ?
Thanks again

I haven't looked at the rules in while but didn't think you could use a tuner if f class...open or tr

 

[skiutah02]

I do not use one (yet), but I saw several used at Nationals, including someone I was squadded with. They seem to be legal. Drew

 

[Scott Harris]

They're legal and I'm sure they work. But, my question is do they improve results enough to be meaningful in mid-range and long-range F-class?

Tuners make sense in smallbore because you can't do any load development. Tuners make sense in Benchrest where competitors will do just about anything to get a group .01" smaller. I'm not sure they are useful in F-class where a small change in the wind can blow you 1/2 minute or more into the 9 ring or worse... I don't see the tiny improvement a tuner offers changing that equation at all. Now, if you tell me a tuner can improve your group size a lot, then I'd say you need to do more load development.

It comes down to time management for me, a tuner is at the bottom of the list along with cleaning primer pockets and trimming meplats. ;D

 

[swd]

I've read that they can make the tune window much wider. That would be pretty useful.

 

[Marksman63]

I think that the tuner's effect is marginal on a centerfire COTS barrel and action.
I have no experience but if you test your tuner on a 30-34" barrel I am sure you would find up significative results

 

[Cigarcop]

They're legal and I'm sure they work. But, my question is do they improve results enough to be meaningful in mid-range and long-range F-class?

Tuners make sense in smallbore because you can't do any load development. Tuners make sense in Benchrest where competitors will do just about anything to get a group .01" smaller. I'm not sure they are useful in F-class where a small change in the wind can blow you 1/2 minute or more into the 9 ring or worse... I don't see the tiny improvement a tuner offers changing that equation at all. Now, if you tell me a tuner can improve your group size a lot, then I'd say you need to do more load development.

It comes down to time management for me, a tuner is at the bottom of the list along with cleaning primer pockets and trimming meplats. ;D

Scott while I respect your opinion and agree with some I'd have to say its not how tiny a Tuner can make your load, a good load will already shoot small....... Its what you know about your Tuner on each side of its tune that can help you as conditions dictate during a LR match.... If your so inclined to do so.

 

[savagedasher]

Tuners work the same on center fire as rim fire. They make the bullet exit in different directions . Just like you do when changing powder drop and bullet seating.
Rim fire you are stuck with fixed ammo. With a tuner you can find a spot on tuner where their is a reduction in group size. When conditions change the tuner lets you adjust the fixed load to shoot better or smaller group size.
Center fire if you go to a match pre loaded. your in the same boat as rim fire.
A tuner give you the ability to adjust the bullet impact in different conditions.
When a shooter learns his tuner and have confidence in the movement it make in where your bullet impacts.
I feel it is a advantage.
My feeling is in time center fire will be just like rim fire. If you don't have a tuner your going to get beat by someone who does. .
Check R.A.S tuners Larry

 

[BenPerfected]

Tuners work the same on center fire as rim fire. They make the bullet exit in different directions . Just like you do when changing powder drop and bullet seating.
Rim fire you are stuck with fixed ammo. With a tuner you can find a spot on tuner where their is a reduction in group size. When conditions change the tuner lets you adjust the fixed load to shoot better or smaller group size.
Center fire if you go to a match pre loaded. your in the same boat as rim fire.
A tuner give you the ability to adjust the bullet impact in different conditions.
When a shooter learns his tuner and have confidence in the movement it make in where your bullet impacts.
I feel it is a advantage.
My feeling is in time center fire will be just like rim fire. If you don't have a tuner your going to get beat by someone who does. .
Check R.A.S tuners Larry

Totally agree with Larry. When it comes to tuning, why change your loads as conditions change? Just adjust your tune by turning your tuner less than .250" in either direction. It is my understanding that F Class can and does use tuners, just not tuners with muzzle breaks.
Ben

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

Tuners are perfectly legal in F-Class. John Myers has been using a tuner for some time, and he won the FCNC Midrange title with one on his rifle - he's a great shooter anyway, but it sure didn't hurt...

 

[jsthntn247]

Tuners work the same on center fire as rim fire. They make the bullet exit in different directions . Just like you do when changing powder drop and bullet seating.
Rim fire you are stuck with fixed ammo. With a tuner you can find a spot on tuner where their is a reduction in group size. When conditions change the tuner lets you adjust the fixed load to shoot better or smaller group size.
Center fire if you go to a match pre loaded. your in the same boat as rim fire.
A tuner give you the ability to adjust the bullet impact in different conditions.
When a shooter learns his tuner and have confidence in the movement it make in where your bullet impacts.
I feel it is a advantage.
My feeling is in time center fire will be just like rim fire. If you don't have a tuner your going to get beat by someone who does. .
Check R.A.S tuners Larry

Adjust bullet impact in different conditions?

 

[savagedasher]

Tuners work the same on center fire as rim fire. They make the bullet exit in different directions . Just like you do when changing powder drop and bullet seating.
Rim fire you are stuck with fixed ammo. With a tuner you can find a spot on tuner where their is a reduction in group size. When conditions change the tuner lets you adjust the fixed load to shoot better or smaller group size.
Center fire if you go to a match pre loaded. your in the same boat as rim fire.
A tuner give you the ability to adjust the bullet impact in different conditions.
When a shooter learns his tuner and have confidence in the movement it make in where your bullet impacts.
I feel it is a advantage.
My feeling is in time center fire will be just like rim fire. If you don't have a tuner your going to get beat by someone who does. .
Check R.A.S tuners Larry

Adjust bullet impact in different conditions?

Sure What does a head wind or tail do to the bullet impact?
If you load was tuned in calm conditions and the wind change to a head wind you are going to get vertical.
A tuner changes the bullet impact both horizontal and vertical.
A slight chance in the tuner will help.
When you can change your load like in BR shooting a tuner isn't as benifcal.
Having said that I also know A tuner gives a wider sweet spot.
I the near future you will go to shoot and find if don't have a tuner you are going to get beat by someone who does. Just like it is in rim fire.
Larry

 

[AckleymanII]

I think that tuners are like indoor toilets, it took people a long time to accept them. Most things new take a long time to accept by the shooting crowd and there are few true experimenters.

 

[Bindi2]

I think that tuners are like indoor toilets, it took people a long time to accept them. Most things new take a long time to accept by the shooting crowd and there are few true experimenters.

Well said and Electronic targets are in the same class

 

[Mozella]

....... snip ............
Having said that I also know A tuner gives a wider sweet spot.
I the near future you will go to shoot and find if don't have a tuner you are going to get beat by someone who does. Just like it is in rim fire.
Larry

Which brand of tuner do you use for your center-fire rifles?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

They're legal and I'm sure they work. But, my question is do they improve results enough to be meaningful in mid-range and long-range F-class?

Tuners make sense in smallbore because you can't do any load development. Tuners make sense in Benchrest where competitors will do just about anything to get a group .01" smaller. I'm not sure they are useful in F-class where a small change in the wind can blow you 1/2 minute or more into the 9 ring or worse... I don't see the tiny improvement a tuner offers changing that equation at all. Now, if you tell me a tuner can improve your group size a lot, then I'd say you need to do more load development.

It comes down to time management for me, a tuner is at the bottom of the list along with cleaning primer pockets and trimming meplats. ;D

Scott while I respect your opinion and agree with some I'd have to say its not how tiny a Tuner can make your load, a good load will already shoot small....... Its what you know about your Tuner on each side of its tune that can help you as conditions dictate during a LR match.... If your so inclined to do so.

Well said, Cigarcorp!

 

[normmatzen]

Tuners are a total waste of time!

They don't improve anything!


He! He!

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I've used one of Cortina's tuners for a barrel. The next barrel has an Ezell tuner on it. Both are on 284 barrels of similar specs.

I can't say that one is better than the other because there have only been two barrels. I will say that the Ezell tuner looks better on my HV tapered barrels...

I do know that they both do exactly what they are supposed to. I'm going to spend some time this winter teaching myself how to use them effectively (instead of set and forget).

 

[Ringostar]

They take time and experimenting if your going to make adjustments during a match. I have one of Erik's. I haven't spent enough time learning with it yet. However here is one thing that I really like. If you travel to matches, you can make slight adjustments to bring your load in that was developed on your home range. I have a load that shoots great at Lodi. When I go to Phoenix, I go to a practice range and make a slight adjustment until it tightens up. This can come in real handy for ranges with higher elevation, like Raton.