Barrel problems

[Ccrider]

This is a factory barrel.
I like the comment about being rifled with a wood chisel, my feelings in a nutshell! My first thought was "really?, you willingly put your name on this?"
I have been using bronze up until I got the Bore Tech. They recommend the nylon to stay away from false positives for copper.
I was wondering if I was the cause of this mess, but I don't think so now.
As for loading, all test loads are trickled to correct charge weight, fully prepped cases and Rem 7&1/2 primers.

For sure the borescope is fun to play with. But how do you know what bores historically have looked like, especially in mass produced rifles. A barrel may not shoot, but it ain’t necessarily because of the looks of the bore.

If you could look at the bore and tell, people would be charging and happily paying a premium for the bore that had that hummer look.

 

[Mark W]

For sure the borescope is fun to play with. But how do you know what bores historically have looked like, especially in mass produced rifles. A barrel may not shoot, but it ain’t necessarily because of the looks of the bore.

If you could look at the bore and tell, people would be charging and happily paying a premium for the bore that had that hummer look.

I don’t exactly disagree, but if one rifle out of the two dozen that I currently own shoots patterns instead of groups and coppers badly in 3 or 4 shots, I feel pretty confident in believing that the tools marks that leave it looking more like a file than a rifle barrel have something to do with it....lol.

 

[oldmt]

Shooters Choice allowed to soak aprox 5 to 10 minutes before patching.

 

[gman47564]

the pitting in it makes me wonder if it hadn't had rust in it at some point of its life... I got a new ar barrel one time and it looked fine on the outside but went to cleaning it before I installed it and it had rust in it... after cleaning it up good the barrel was pitted pretty bad in places... I figured it was junk but the thing shot fine..

 

[oldmt]

After seeing these replies I get the impression that barrels such as this one are not uncommon. I truly did not expect to here that.
A number of you have suggested a re-barrel and that has been discussed at length with good friend of mine. Planning on a Remage conversion with a Douglas Premium barrel in a 9 twist to open up my bullet options. Also gives me the ability with a simple barrel change to go with multiple chambering that use the 223 bolt face.
Thanks to all who have replied to this posting.

 

[Stan Taylor]

After seeing these replies I get the impression that barrels such as this one are not uncommon. I truly did not expect to here that.
A number of you have suggested a re-barrel and that has been discussed at length with good friend of mine. Planning on a Remage conversion with a Douglas Premium barrel in a 9 twist to open up my bullet options. Also gives me the ability with a simple barrel change to go with multiple chambering that use the 223 bolt face.
Thanks to all who have replied to this posting.

That's a very wise choice call me at Douglas and I will get you hooked up

 

[oldmt]

Planning on doing that this winter.

 

[GerryM]

Bore Paste would do wonders for that Barrel

 

[oldmt]

Maybe I'll give that a try. Doesn't look like I have anything to loose.

EDIT: It seems I have a 10 post in 48hr limit. I am still watching this thread but replies will have to wait.

 

[msinc]

Life is to short to mess around with stuff like that. Get it rebarreled!

not bad advice....just make sure the thing you are getting ready to stop messing around with is the right one or you wont have "fixed" anything. I have barreled a lot of actions and while I am not saying that barrel looks good by no means, I am saying that I have seen and owned barrels that look just like that and shot acceptably.
One thing I am seeing no mention of, since this is a factory rifle and barrel, is it also the factory trigger??? I am not aware of any factory made triggers that would be on a rifle with a barrel like that which are acceptable!! What exactly is the trigger pull?? Please don't take this wrong, but if you own a photo capable borescope, surely to god you own a trigger pull gauge.
I too use Shooters Choice products. Are you using MC-7?? 5-10 minutes of soaking and then scrubbing with a plastic brush is not going to get it. That's not enough soak time with a bronze brush if there is a lot of copper. With MC-7, if you have a lot of copper you need to be thinking over night soaks...and maybe not just one. Maybe I'm blind, but I am not seeing any copper in the bore photos. That said, try cleaning with JB Bore Cleaner.
You might as well go ahead and tell us the brand...they all need bashed from what I see they are turning out these days. Honestly, what I am seeing is a pretty typical average factory barrel today and I see many that are way worse. This might upset a few fanboys, but buy a Shilen "match" barrel from Brownell's and that's about what you see tool mark wise.

Edit: as to bullets, they aren't much better than the barrels being made!! The only bullets I get to not spray patterns is Berger. I do have one 223 that's 1-in-12 and it loves 24.5 grains of Benchmark and a 50 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip.

 

[SBS]

If you're going to give it another try after using some bore paste, be sure to try some Benchmark as msinc suggests above and try with some flat base bullets -- maybe Hornady SX or Nosler flat base tipped. Some barrels just don't like boattail bullets.

 

[msinc]

If you're going to give it another try after using some bore paste, be sure to try some Benchmark as msinc suggests above and try with some flat base bullets -- maybe Hornady SX or Nosler flat base tipped. Some barrels just don't like boattail bullets.

Yes sir, I too have seen flat base bullets shoot better groups than boat tails. In fact, one of the cheaper bullets out there, the Varmageddon's, are flat based and one of the best shooting I have tried.
Also, one other thing that hasn't been mentioned...what's the muzzle crown look like?? How about a photo or two of the very end of the rifling at the muzzle thru that bore scope??

 

[JFrank]

After seeing these replies I get the impression that barrels such as this one are not uncommon. I truly did not expect to here that.
A number of you have suggested a re-barrel and that has been discussed at length with good friend of mine. Planning on a Remage conversion with a Douglas Premium barrel in a 9 twist to open up my bullet options. Also gives me the ability with a simple barrel change to go with multiple chambering that use the 223 bolt face.
Thanks to all who have replied to this posting.

I’d go 1-8 twist

 

[GerryM]

short story I bought a new rifle years ago that had a hammer forged barrel Boy was it rough''
It shot very poor , I bore scoped it / I set it on the rifle rack and decided to rebarrel it at some later date.
after a few years i decided to shoot it once more and either sell it at a loss or rebarrel it
one of my friends told me about the bore paste. it worked wonders on that barrel Starting groups were over an inch but after several
trips to the range and several cleanings it came alive shooting less then 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

If you are going to install a new Remage barrel, then this must be a Remington 700. Would be interesting to see what Remington has to say about it. Why not call them?

 

[Mark W]

If you are going to install a new Remage barrel, then this must be a Remington 700. Would be interesting to see what Remington has to say about it. Why not call them?

They will say ship us the gun and let us check it out for ourselves.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

They will say ship us the gun and let us check it out for ourselves.

Well maybe they will replace the barrel.

 

[Mark W]

Well maybe they will replace the barrel.

I was just stating what they would say, but yea they might replace the barrel after a lengthy wait or they might send it back as is and say that it meets their standards.

 

[Joe Maisto]

It is a 12 twist so 69gr most likely won't stabilize.
I have tried 55gr Sierra Game King and Blitz King, 50gr sierra Blitz King, Nosler 55gr BT (gun hates these) Hornady 55gr V-Max & SPSX, 50gr Hornady SP and a few others. Most loads in the 24.5 to 25gr range using H335 and some loads with 748. Cases are trimmed, primer pockets uniformed, flash holes de-burred.
So far it prefers the Sierras over all others.
Groups may start out showing promise but begin to open up badly after about 15 to 20 rounds thru the gun after cleaning.
I feel that the bore just fouls that badly. Not much fun when teaching prarie dogs to do flips.

That's a great line, however..I would find it amusing to take bets with your fellow shooters to see who can make them flip the highest !

 

[butchlambert]

short story I bought a new rifle years ago that had a hammer forged barrel Boy was it rough''
It shot very poor , I bore scoped it / I set it on the rifle rack and decided to rebarrel it at some later date.
after a few years i decided to shoot it once more and either sell it at a loss or rebarrel it
one of my friends told me about the bore paste. it worked wonders on that barrel Starting groups were over an inch but after several
trips to the range and several cleanings it came alive shooting less then 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds.

Man, I'm agona get me a 5 gal bucket of the magic bore paste!