Barrel Nut Disadvantages?

[DHuffman]

A lot of people seem to think it's someone else's job to prove things out and share the knowledge and furthermore have a very definite idea of how it should be proved.

I've always thought if it's important to you test it out the way you want in your own gear using your own consumables.

I appreciate the work you guys are putting into this and your willingness to share results. Thank you.

 

[Fuj]

A lot of people seem to think it's someone else's job to prove things out and share the knowledge and furthermore have a very definite idea of how it should be proved.

I've always thought if it's important to you test it out the way you want in your own gear using your own consumables.

I appreciate the work you guys are putting into this and your willingness to share results. Thank you.

Times 10, Dave.....

 

[boltfluter]

Well, I decided last night to go on ahead and take the barrel off of my 17 pound Rifle and modify it for the nut.
This is a 1-17 Bartlien 30 cal that is a proven winner. I decided against going to the range with it, then coming back to my shop and doing the barrel. It has shot 23x’s twice, It shoots my standard load, so I decided last night to remove the barrel and modify it for the nut I made.

At the range this morning, it was rather cold for March, 55 degrees. The conditions were not the best, but with a overcast all day, the tune should stay consistent.

The conditions were straight at us, switching at about 20 degrees from left to right. 5 to 10 mph. Shooting over my standard 4 flag set, they were very readable.

I tuned the barrel with the tuner. The last group in the tuning session was the one on the tan target.

I then hung a score target to do the test. The rifle was shooting really well. I was taking as much as 15 minutes on each Group, catching the condition As perfect as I could for each shot.

The targets speak for themselves. I seemed to be having a pretty good morning. After shooting the groups, I went to the #3 bull, held accordingly, and nailed a wipeout. It always feels good to do that.

The heartbreaker was that #4 bull. I jus flat out missed the velocity of what was a straight at us headwind. That would have been close to a “zero”.

The load is 34.8 grns of H4198, my own 30 caliber 112 bullet, about .010 off the lands.

Conclusion:
If a barrel nut, done correctly, affects accuracy, I could not tell. This darn thing was shooting at a match winning level this morning. This is one of my best rifles, though too heavy to shoot in RegisteredMatches.
The action is the Bat M that I converted to a screw in shroud a few years back. (That was a real project).

Here are some pictures of the barrel in the lathe, the rifle, the range set up, and the targets.View attachment 1429922View attachment 1429921View attachment 1429920View attachment 1429919View attachment 1429918

Jackie,
Great test. Maybe I missed it, but which group is nutted and which is with a shoulder?

 

[LVLAaron]

I'm more interested in this shroud conversion you did than the nut thing.

 

[SKWERLZ]

A lot of people seem to think it's someone else's job to prove things out and share the knowledge and furthermore have a very definite idea of how it should be proved.

I've always thought if it's important to you test it out the way you want in your own gear using your own consumables.

I appreciate the work you guys are putting into this and your willingness to share results. Thank you.

Only prove what they claim it fact
That’s fair.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Jackie,
Great test. Maybe I missed it, but which group is nutted and which is with a shoulder?

Between work and upcoming Regional State Championships, I am really pressed for time. I have two back to back State Championship Matches, next weekend and then the next, the Louisiana State, and The Texas State. I had one good free day yo get this done.

My rifle had a proven, match winning barrel on it. So I made the decision to a Friday night to go on ahead and remove the barrel, convert it for the nut, put it back on the rifle, and go to the range. I guess everybody will just have to take my word that this rifle was capable of sub .200 accuracy from the beginning.

I guess I was fortunate that the darn thing shot as good as it always has.

From the posts I read, I get the impression that many shooters do not understand how Short Range Benchrest Shooters test. Every time I go to the range, I set my flags, my loading setup, everything exactly the way I do at a Match. I try to account for every bullet on the paper.

With a well tuned Benchrest Rifle, most Competition Shooters, if not constrained by the clock, can shoot at a competitive level. You notice, I took as much as 15 minutes to shoot several of the groups, waiting until the flag alignment was perfect on each shot. When doing things like this, you have to be meticulous in every aspect, concentrating on your sight picture, your bench technique, anything that contributes to shooting at an extreme accuracy level.

By the way. I am leaving this set up exactly the way it it is for our next Club Match, for which this Rifle is legal. I have that much confidence in it.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Between work and upcoming Regional State Championships, I am really pressed for time. I have two back to back State Championship Matches, next weekend and then the next, the Louisiana State, and The Texas State. I had one good free day yo get this done.

My rifle had a proven, match winning barrel on it. So I made the decision to a Friday night go on ahead and remove the barrel, convert it for the nut, put it back on the rifle, and go to the range. I guess everybody will just have to take my word that this rifle was capable of sub .200 accuracy from the beginning.

I guess I was fortunate that the darn thing shot as good as it always has.

From the posts I read, I get the impression that many shooters do not understand how Short Range Benchrest Shooters test. Every time I go to the range, I set my flags, my loading setup, everything exactly the way I do at a Match. I try to account for every bullet on the paper.

With a well tuned Benchrest Rifle, most Competition Shooters, if not constrained by the clock, can shoot at a competitive level. You notice, I took as much as 15 minutes to shoot several of the groups, waiting until the flag alignment was perfect on each shot. When doing things like this, you have to be meticulous in every aspect, concentrating on your sight picture, your bench technique, anything that contributes to shooting at an extreme accuracy level.

By the way. I am leaving this set up exactly the way it it is for our next Club Match, for which this Rifle is legal. I have that much confidence in it.

That post is gold in itself.

 

[Rat Rifle]

Thanks jackie, You efforts have been above and beyond. The results in Your Club Match will be a further indication of the ”nuts” performance

 

[jackieschmidt]

I'm more interested in this shroud conversion you did than the nut thing.

You noticed that, huh.
A Bat M Action with a screw in shroud.

Several years ago, we were shooting 600 yard Matches up in Huntsville. (The range has since closed down). I decided to build a 284 Light Gun. I ordered that Bat M.

The thing never shot consistent. It spit shots bad. I suspected the problem was in the shroud/cocking piece/ firing pin assembly. Several shooters suggested I send it to one of the several Gunsmiths who know the ins and outs of what could be wrong.

But I said “screw it” (literally), and decided to convert it to a Remington style screw in shroud.
There was plenty of material in the bolt to counterbore bore it to .500 the required depth, and thread the inside to 1/2 13tpi. I machined the shroud from graphite delren, the same as I have on my other rifles.

I machined the firing pin out of a long 1/2 inch grade 8 bolt. the cocking piece is a Remington. However, in order to make it have the correct .250 travel, I had to move the trigger hanger back on the action around 3/16 inch.

It all worked. The action shoots really great. I have several 6BR barrels and 30 BR barrels for it. It makes weight for Light Gun at 17 pounds, but since I don’t shoot much long range anymore, I use it in our VFS Club Matches, where there is no weight limit.

here is a few pictures I have.

 

[jackieschmidt]

 

[AlNyhus]

There's a lot more to shrouds than most would think.

 

[LVLAaron]

Wow. What a project. How did you manage to time the thread for the shroud to clearance correctly over the end of the bolt?

 

[DShortt]

Thanks jackie, You efforts have been above and beyond. The results in Your Club Match will be a further indication of the ”nuts” performance

I don't shoot competitively so I won't be there but I hope you kick some butt. I'd really like to see that particularly given the extra effort you've gone through for this subject. That would be awesome!

 

[jelenko]

Wow. What a project. How did you manage to time the thread for the shroud to clearance correctly over the end of the bolt?

Yeah.
I'm just blown away at some people's skills.

My skill level is changing AR and nutted barrels.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Wow. What a project. How did you manage to time the thread for the shroud to clearance correctly over the end of the bolt?

You do the lathe work, including the threading and reaming the firing pin hole and counterboring for the cocking piece. I then screw it into the bolt all the way, then backing it out about 3/8 turn. I then scribe the slot on center with the bottom of the cocking ramp. This gives me the location of the slot for the lower cocking piece.

The final is cutting the profile for the bottom. It is clearance, you want just enough to clear. I ground a profile fly cutting tool to do this in the mill.

 

[LVLAaron]

Cool! After I typed it I figured I could do it by just custom fitting it. Nice work and cool project!

 

[jackieschmidt]

Cool! After I typed it I figured I could do it by just custom fitting it. Nice work and cool project!

Just my opinion, but I think bat should offer screw in firing pin/shroud assemblies.

These Delren shrouds are not my idea. About 15 years ago, The late Gene Bukys made several for our Farley Actions. The Farleys used a Remington cocking piece. He gave me one for my LV which has seen thousands of rounds. I made one for my HV 30BR Score Rifle, which has anlso seen thousands of rounds. and this one. It’s amazing how durable they are while offering friction free operation.

 

[LVLAaron]

I know Wheeler had a similar project as yours. Is your M an "early" model? Bat upgraded the shrouds at some point on several models

 

[jackieschmidt]

I know Wheeler had a similar project as yours. Is your M an "early" model? Bat upgraded the shrouds at some point on several models

I’m not sure about the model. I bought it around 5 years ago from Bruno’s..

 

[Old Navy]

Thank you Jackie for a great test. No screwing around, no blah, blah, blah...you just did it and let the results speak.

My testing will take a bit more time to complete than yours. We've still got snow on the ground but that will be gone this week.

My barrel is heading to Dusty's for a new chamber (6BR). I'll put it on my Panda HV gun and shoot it. Then Dusty will knock the shoulder off and bring the threads forward for a nut. Then I'll shoot the same loads in it as when it was shouldered. I'm going to do a home brewed joint stability test on both... 'Whack A Mole' style...to check for POI changes between the two styles. Since a good number of nutted barrels are used on PRS and hunting rifles, that may be of interest.

Good shootin' -Al

An while we are talking about nuts. I have two! Remington and Savage . I personally like the Savage best for looks and it is easier to torque with my calibrated Millwright hammer wrench.

PS: Hammer wrenches are a real tool mostly used by Millwrights a long long time ago.