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Barrel Nut Disadvantages?

Oh, I am sure there are lots of people that are going to give any testing a lot of weight. However, one barrel is not a test... but in these days of meme science, it doesn't suprise me.
One test is valid as long as everyone understands the constraints of the test. I don’t think anyone with the skills to do this test would think that the results are conclusive in all conceivable scenarios. The test will produce data that will probably feed further testing and discussion and there is nothing wrong with that.

As an impartial observer that owns and shoots some rifles with barrel nuts, your shrill objections to the testing is not a good look for you. I have great results with barrel nuts on my non-benchrest rifles. Maybe you could contribute. Send a couple of barrel nuts for the test. I’m a potential customer also. I want a 6.5-284 on my spare 700 LA.
 
Remember...this testing evolved from statements that nutted barrels were in all ways the equal of shouldered barrels.

Several people want to find out for sure.

Dusty is putting a new chamber in one of my Panda barrels. I'll test it. Then send it back to Dusty and he'll rethread that exact barrel to use a nut. I'll test it. Results will be compared for accuracy and joint stability the same way for each barrel.

I have zero preconceived notions either way. I'll let the results speak.

I can't wait to do this...should be a lot of fun! This is the stuff we should be doing!! :) Test, find out and advance. Repeat.

Good shootin' -Al
 
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If you want to test a shoulder vs a nut, you have to use all the same components to isolate the joint. So the test described here will be perfect. Anything else is not a test of the joint. A before and after, only change is shoulder vs nut. Looking forward to what you guys come up with.
 
The disadvantage of the barrel nut is a gunsmith isn’t going to get any money from me. I bought an action wrench and barrel nut wrench for less money than what a lot of smiths wanted to chamber and fit a barrel with no long wait time.
Ive fitted 4 Shilen barrels on Savage target actions and they all shoot way better than I expected.
 
The disadvantage of the barrel nut is a gunsmith isn’t going to get any money from me. I bought an action wrench and barrel nut wrench for less money than what a lot of smiths wanted to chamber and fit a barrel with no long wait time.
Ive fitted 4 Shilen barrels on Savage target actions and they all shoot way better than I expected.
The guy that chambered your barrel is not a gunsmith because the barrel has a nut on it?
 
One test is valid as long as everyone understands the constraints of the test. I don’t think anyone with the skills to do this test would think that the results are conclusive in all conceivable scenarios. The test will produce data that will probably feed further testing and discussion and there is nothing wrong with that.

As an impartial observer that owns and shoots some rifles with barrel nuts, your shrill objections to the testing is not a good look for you. I have great results with barrel nuts on my non-benchrest rifles. Maybe you could contribute. Send a couple of barrel nuts for the test. I’m a potential customer also. I want a 6.5-284 on my spare 700 LA.
Exactly!
 
One test is valid as long as everyone understands the constraints of the test. I don’t think anyone with the skills to do this test would think that the results are conclusive in all conceivable scenarios. The test will produce data that will probably feed further testing and discussion and there is nothing wrong with that.

As an impartial observer that owns and shoots some rifles with barrel nuts, your shrill objections to the testing is not a good look for you. I have great results with barrel nuts on my non-benchrest rifles. Maybe you could contribute. Send a couple of barrel nuts for the test. I’m a potential customer also. I want a 6.5-284 on my spare 700 LA.

"Shrill objections"? Hahaha

The test of one barrel is not valid test and I disagree with the entire premise.

If you took 20 nut barrels and compared that to 20 shouldered, you might have the beginning of a data set. If you had some way I getting the same lot of barrels. I've already done testing from the same lot of barrels (I only use Wilson blanks). The shoulder is literally a variable "in the noise" among so many others.

One would have to have a large enough data set to see a TREND.
 
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The guy that chambered your barrel is not a gunsmith because the barrel has a nut on it?

Not really a gunsmith. A production person that never touched a firearm but runs his lathe all day, ever day, could have made that barrel.

Most gun parts are made by "non gunsmiths". In fact, "gunsmiths" are a micro portion of the firearms industry.
 
I think the way Jackie has planned is pretty ingenious. It can be done with essentially zero change in the bbl, before and after the test. He could blue loctite the nut just a few thou from contacting the shoulder allowing the test to be done even with the nut on, but not touching the action face. Then just machine the bbl shoulder back a few thou, just enough for it to headspace the same with the nut without the bbl shoulder contacting the action. Pretty slick and I don't see how it can be much more similar. Something else is he could go back and test using the nut as a jam nut, using both the nut and a shoulder. Before and after results should be more telling than any other test I've seen posted.
 
I think I'm looking at this from a different and more positive angle. I see this as the first comparison test between the fitment of a shouldered barrel and the fitment of the same barrel nutted. Regardless of the results, it will not be the last. A data set has to start somewhere, why not as it is being planned here.

Anyone disagreeing with the outcome or the process is certainly free to follow up with their comparison test. With so many other equipment, method, process comparisons constantly being introduced in the industry, I look forward to this test and all the following test. Thank You in advance to those who will contribute to this test.
 
Remember...this testing evolved from statements that nutted barrels were in all ways the equal of shouldered barrels.

Several people want to find out for sure.

Dusty is putting a new chamber in one of my Panda barrels. I'll test it. Then send it back to Dusty and he'll rethread that exact barrel to use a nut. I'll test it. Results will be compared for accuracy and joint stability the same way for each barrel.

I have zero preconceived notions either way. I'll let the results speak.

I can't wait to do this...should be a lot of fun! This is the stuff we should be doing!! :) Test, find out and advance. Repeat.

Good shootin' -Al
I would suggest that the test targets be posted for evaluation WITHOUT revealing whether the barrel was shouldered or nutted. Let the masses see if there is a verifiable difference between the two methods of attachment. Post the targets for 48 or 72 hours and let the chips fall where they may.
 
"Shrill objections"? Hahaha

The test of one barrel is not valid test and I disagree with the entire premise.

If you took 20 nut barrels and compared that to 20 shouldered, you might have the beginning of a data set. If you had some way I getting the same lot of barrels. I've already done testing from the same lot of barrels (I only use Wilson blanks). The shoulder is literally a variable "in the noise" among so many others.

One would have to have a large enough data set to see a TREND.
Not necessarily true. You haven't seen the data yet. The results from a proven BR rifle platform, with a BR quality barrel, may be so obvious that no further testing is warranted. I participated in many medical trials that were ended early because one of the hypothesis was obviously so much better, we incorporated it into our practice immediately. None of us know what we will see until the test is done.
 
The guy that chambered your barrel is not a gunsmith because the barrel has a nut on it?
What I was trying to say is I got a prefit barrel. The action came with a nut, The barrel was chambered and threaded at Shilen. The guys at Shilen must be very good machinists based on the results I’ve gotten. Once I got the barrel I didn’t need a gunsmith, I screwed it on, headspaced it and tightened the nut.

Years ago I figured I could build a super accurate rifle for Less money and quicker than going through a competent gunsmith If I used a prefit barrel with a nut.

I don’t have the machinery or know-how to do a shouldered barrel.
 
What I was trying to say is I got a prefit barrel. The action came with a nut, The barrel was chambered and threaded at Shilen. The guys at Shilen must be very good machinists based on the results I’ve gotten. Once I got the barrel I didn’t need a gunsmith, I screwed it on, headspaced it and tightened the nut.

Years ago I figured I could build a super accurate rifle for Less money and quicker than going through a competent gunsmith If I used a prefit barrel with a nut.

I don’t have the machinery or know-how to do a shouldered barrel.
I know, I just think a lot of guys have been fooled with marketing. For example, I would charge the same for a shouldered barrel as a nut barrel. A nut barrel may save me 5 minutes on a chamber job. In the long run the end user of a nut barrel needs headspace gauges, nut wrench, barrel vise, and action wrench. Plus some basic knowledge. With a shoulder barrel you need a vise and wrench.

From the end user point of veiw a nut is harder.

From the guy machining the barrel a nut is simpler.
 
I know, I just think a lot of guys have been fooled with marketing. For example, I would charge the same for a shouldered barrel as a nut barrel. A nut barrel may save me 5 minutes on a chamber job. In the long run the end user of a nut barrel needs headspace gauges, nut wrench, barrel vise, and action wrench. Plus some basic knowledge. With a shoulder barrel you need a vise and wrench.

From the end user point of veiw a nut is harder.

From the guy machining the barrel a nut is simpler.
You know more about building rifles than I’ll ever know, I was just giving my perspective and experience as hobby “gunsmith”.

I didn’t use a barrel vise, just an action wrench and barrel nut wrench. At first I used go and no-go gauges then I used a go gauge and cellophane tape to make a no-go gauge.
 
Same non gunsmith could also make a shouldered prefit, no?

Yes.

Customers don't want to send their actions, so they buy the nut barrel. Customers don't want to wait months for a bedding job, so they buy my stocks with aluminum bedding blocks or a chassis.

My nut barrel nut uses a crescent wrench. You can use brass to headspace.

There really are no extra tools involved to change a nut verses a shoulder. I suppose some people don't want to mess with barrel changing at all. So, there's that. They may not want to buy the tools.

As far as whether someone needs to send their action for a shoulder, there's another thread discussing custom action headspace tolerance we both commented on. I think shoulders should be fitted every time.

Shoot man, I like shouldered barrels. I have both. 20230320_090047.jpg20230320_090033.jpg

But this is my buddy's Atlas I did and it came out great. To say it's "hideous" is ridiculous.

20230211_112721.jpg

Here it is after the barrel was painted.

IMG_1833.jpg
 

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