Barrel heat management in F-TR

[Trebor Snave]

You might try some canned air. I've seen shooters after every few shots put a healthy blast or two of air through from the chamber.

 

[clunker]

You might try some canned air. I've seen shooters after every few shots put a healthy blast or two of air through from the chamber.

I'm really surprised that's allowed, but it makes sense. Compressed air blows much cooler than ambient air, so it probably works much faster. It might blow out some loose carbon at the same time.

Your going to be forced to either pace your shots or lose points to a hot barrel. I haven’t seen the barrel cooler used during a string but I don’t know of any reason not to. Good luck to you and enjoy the game!

I guess I take longer than most people to prepare for my shots, so I just naturally have to pace myself. Part of that is because my scope has virtually zero eye relief. It takes a while to get a good cheek weld and still be able to see anything. I also have to load the magazine after every 3 shots because the rifle will not accept hand-fed rounds. It seriously takes me almost the entire 20 minutes. Thank God I corrected the bipod hop, or it would take me even longer.

 

[kzin]

I guess I take longer than most people to prepare for my shots, so I just naturally have to pace myself. Part of that is because my scope has virtually zero eye relief. It takes a while to get a good cheek weld and still be able to see anything. I also have to load the magazine after every 3 shots because the rifle will not accept hand-fed rounds. It seriously takes me almost the entire 20 minutes. Thank God I corrected the bipod hop, or it would take me even longer.

This is going to be another issue.
F-Class is single load only. You'll have to put only one in the mag and drop the mag every shot or come up with a way to load a round into the chamber.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Although your local match director may let you do it, firing rounds from a magazine is against the rules in F-Class.

Regardless, if you're taking the almost entire 20 minutes to complete your 20-shot string and sighters, I'm not sure how much barrel heat is really going to be an issue anyhow. Chances are very good that shooting at such a slow cadence is going to eventually cost you a lot more points due to changing wind conditions, than due to barrel heat and changing POI.

FWIW - even firing shots at a one minute cadence, which is the max you could theoretically get away with during an F-Class match and still finish in time, is not going to prevent a typical barrel from getting hot. It may be "less hot" at the end than it would had you fired more quickly, but it will still be hot. It seems to me you really only have two realistic choices. The first choice is simply to purchase a different barrel, preferably with a heavier contour that is less sensitive to heating. The second choice is simply to work with the barrel you have and determine whether the change in POI is predictable as the barrel heats. If so, you can learn how you will need to correct your POA or turret adjustment at a given distance as the shift occurs in order to keep up with it during a string. IMO - the first choice is the better one, but you might be able to make the 2nd choice work for you if that's the way you have to go.

 

[JFrank]

Can you use either of these products in the middle of a 20-shot string, or are you suggesting it should be used after the string is completed? Same question about fans pointed at the barrel.

The barrel is light enough that it cools on its own in about 20 minutes if left in the shade. But by the 15th shot in the middle of a 20-shot string, it's pretty hot. If a mirage shield and a series of fans are allowed, then I might have a solution. Thanks for the input everyone.

Sporting barrels were never intended to shoot 20 shot strings, if you can't touch the outside imagine how hot that chamber is.
You'll need to really watch your time use all you can with respect to your course of fire.
My shots will wander under those same conditions.

 

[clunker]

Although your local match director may let you do it, firing rounds from a magazine is against the rules in F-Class.

That could be a major problem. Loading from the magazine never fails, but I have never been able to feed by hand in either of my Tikkas. The magazine directs each round at the correct angle so it chambers. But when you hand feed, the round sits flat and simply hits the butt of the barrel. Not sure if this is just a Tikka thing or not. Believe me, I wish I could hand feed. Even though my magazine holds four rounds, I can't shoot the fourth round because it shoots differently than the first three. Took me a lot of time at the range to figure out why the 4th was always a flier.

Sporting barrels were never intended to shoot 20 shot strings, if you can't touch the outside imagine how hot that chamber is.
You'll need to really watch your time use all you can with respect to your course of fire.
My shots will wander under those same conditions.

I have never let the barrel get so hot that I could not touch it, but it came close while shooting at 200 yds in the previous pic. Those shots were fired at about 67*F. Imagine how hot it would get during one of our summers where we get 6 straight weeks of 90+ weather.

 

[BP1]

If your tikkia has the mag that drops out you can buy a bob sled mag for single loading

 

[dcali]

If your barrel doesn’t get too hot to touch, then it’s highly unlikely that heat is a problem. I think you’re over thinking this. Figure out how to single load (this is a safety issue, most match directors will take it seriously) and go shoot. If you get into f class, your file will limit you sooner rather than later. But so long as you know that, have a blast.

 

[Medic505]

It would be against the Rules

I'm not saying it's not and I'm not trying to start an argument but, point out to me where in the rules it says it's illegal. I'm sure you saw the picture of the rain cover that was set up at nationals that the shooter had to remove. I've looked through the rules and I can't find anything that specifically addresses this. Maybe I missed something?

 

[Medic505]

firing rounds from a magazine is against the rules in F-Class.

Show me where in the rules it says this.


10.1.6 Loading in Slow Fire—In all slow fire events, the rifle will be


loaded with only one cartridge at a time. The cartridge shall be inserted in

the magazine or chamber only when the rifle is pointed down range. Resting a

loaded rifle on a shooting stool or on the foot, is prohibited

 

[Ned Ludd]

Show me where in the rules it says this.


10.1.6 Loading in Slow Fire—In all slow fire events, the rifle will be


loaded with only one cartridge at a time. The cartridge shall be inserted in

the magazine or chamber only when the rifle is pointed down range. Resting a

loaded rifle on a shooting stool or on the foot, is prohibited

I take this to mean that the rifle will be loaded with only one cartridge at a time, exactly as it says. That means multiple rounds in a mag as the OP stated he was doing would not be legal. Notice that I indicated "rounds" using the plural, exactly as I did in my response above, Dean, meaning feeding rounds which is what the OP indicated he was doing.

If you wish to interpret that means only a single cartridge in the chamber at a time, but multiple rounds in the mag are ok, that's fine, I don't particularly care. Of course, that seems pretty silly to me considering you can only fit one round in the chamber at a time in any event. So what is the purpose for specifying "loaded with only one cartridge at a time" if it isn't to mean loaded up anywhere on the weapon? Because you can't ever fit more than one round in the chamber at a time, if loading up mags was ok, why would there even be a need to specify anything? That's what I have always interpreted single feeding to mean, and I think most rational people would agree. I was just trying to help the guy out, Dean. If the interpretation that it is ok to load up a mag and shoot from it is commonly used by match directors, I've never heard one say it. On the other hand, I have heard match directors clearly state single feeding, one round at a time, at the vast majority of matches I've ever attended.

 

[memilanuk]

Dean, how about 10.7 a) "Firing Line Procedures & Commands" "Slow Fire" where one of the given commands is literally "WITH ONE ROUND LOAD..."

Not three.

Not five. Or ten.

ONE.

That is the accepted interpretation for 'slow fire' at pretty much every HP/F-class match I've ever shot in. Local clubs may make accommodations for new shooters (like their first time or two out) but thats generally just to let people show up and shoot what they have and get a feel for the sport. After that... figure out how to single load your gun.

 

[dolek]

@clunker ... What did you discover was causing your problem with the 4th round "flier"?

Quoted from post above..."Even though my magazine holds four rounds, I can't shoot the fourth round because it shoots differently than the first three. Took me a lot of time at the range to figure out why the 4th was always a flier."

 

[dcali]

You can use a magazine, as long as there’s only one round in it. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong on that). But doing so is not going to be a good idea when you can just push the bullet into the chamber a little and then close the bolt. Is there a reason that can’t be done with a Tikka? (I’ve never shot one).

 

[ED3]

That could be a major problem. Loading from the magazine never fails, but I have never been able to feed by hand in either of my Tikkas. The magazine directs each round at the correct angle so it chambers. But when you hand feed, the round sits flat and simply hits the butt of the barrel. Not sure if this is just a Tikka thing or not. Believe me, I wish I could hand feed. Even though my magazine holds four rounds, I can't shoot the fourth round because it shoots differently than the first three. Took me a lot of time at the range to figure out why the 4th was always a flier.



I have never let the barrel get so hot that I could not touch it, but it came close while shooting at 200 yds in the previous pic. Those shots were fired at about 67*F. Imagine how hot it would get during one of our summers where we get 6 straight weeks of 90+ weather.

I don't recall if it is from Bob Sled, or someone else, but I have a single shot follower inserted in the factory Tikka magazine.
Works flawlessly.

 

[kzin]

You can use a magazine, as long as there’s only one round in it. (Someone correct me if I’m wrong on that). But doing so is not going to be a good idea when you can just push the bullet into the chamber a little and then close the bolt. Is there a reason that can’t be done with a Tikka? (I’ve never shot one).

I strongly believe that is correct.

Some people re-interpret the actual rule as 'you can't use a mag' then take their own re-interpretation literally and believe you can't even load 1 in a mag.

 

[Medic505]

I know it isn't allowed to load more than one round. I've been aware of this from day one. I took Greg's post to say, just like it's written, " Firing rounds from a magazine is against the rules in F class". This could be viewed as multiple or single. Even if you drop the mag after every shot and place a round in it, that's still, firing rounds from a magazine. Which is legal. So, long story short, I didn't want the OP to be lead to believe it's against the rules to "load from a magazine".

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I know it isn't allowed to load more than one round. I've been aware of this from day one. I took Greg's post to say, just like it's written, " Firing rounds from a magazine is against the rules in F class". This could be viewed as multiple or single. Even if you drop the mag after every shot and place a round in it, that's still, firing rounds from a magazine. Which is legal. So, long story short, I didn't want the OP to be lead to believe it's against the rules to "load from a magazine".

Dean is exactly correct. You most certainly can load from a magazine but in High Power competition, with the exception of the rapid fire courses in Service Rifle, only one round in the magazine is allowed.

Now, about this barrel heat thing; the only item that you can use to counteract the barrel heating up too quickly is a heavier barrel. Heavy barrels heat up more slowly than thin barrels, and for the same number of rounds fired in the same time, they will cool faster than thinner barrels because they have a larger surface through which to dissipate heat.

You cannot put a fan beside you to cool be barrel and you cannot use that gadget that was shown earlier; they are in direct contravention of rule 3.18:


"3.18 General—All devices or equipment which may facilitate shooting and which are not mentioned in these rules, or which are contrary to the spirit of these rules and regulations, are forbidden. The Match Director, Official Referee, Jury Chairman or Supervisor shall have the right to examine a shooter’s equipment or apparel. The responsibility shall be upon the competitor to submit questionable equipment and apparel for official inspection and approval in sufficient time prior to the beginning of a match so that it will not inconvenience either the competitor or the official."

Take that to mean that if the item you want to use is not listed in the rules, it's most probably controversial. If you're bringing it to the line because it will make it easier, or provide comfort, or help in any way, it's definitely illegal.

Check out rule 6.3 about using umbrellas and individual covers. Spoiler alert, they're not permitted.

 

[Medic505]

Check out rule 6.3 about using umbrellas and individual covers. Spoiler alert, they're not permitted

Thank you, I guessed I missed that. I do have to give the rain cover a thumbs up, more than just a little thought and some effort went into that. I was wishing for a tent!

 

[clunker]

@clunker ... What did you discover was causing your problem with the 4th round "flier"?

Quoted from post above..."Even though my magazine holds four rounds, I can't shoot the fourth round because it shoots differently than the first three. Took me a lot of time at the range to figure out why the 4th was always a flier."

I wish I could give the forum member proper credit, but I can't remember who made the suggestion in another thread. It turns out that as long as there is one round in the magazine, there seems to be a small amount of pressure on the bolt. When the fourth cartridge is loaded in the chamber, there are no longer any rounds to apply pressure. You can tell there's a difference simply by inserting a magazine with the bolt open, and inserting again with the bolt closed. It requires more force to insert with the bolt closed. I have to either have at least one additional round in the magazine, or I have load each round, one at a time. Otherwise, I can't consistently keep groups under MOA.

Thanks for the additional info everyone. Rules that prohibit the use of additional equipment are more along the lines of what I would have expected for competitive shooting. However, after some googling and watching some youtube, I see that mirage shields are quite popular in competition. I guess I'll just have to avoid competitions when temps get above 80*F, and keep the barrel cool between strings.

I don't recall if it is from Bob Sled, or someone else, but I have a single shot follower inserted in the factory Tikka magazine.
Works flawlessly.

I was thinking about constructing something that stays in the magazine and guides a hand-fed round into the chamber. Sounds like that is what you're describing. Even better if someone already manufactures one.