Barrel Diameter

[USMCDOC]

I don’t think that the term “heat treated” is proper. More so the steel tempered to a more uniform structure.

 

[USMCDOC]

Do those scores have to do with the shooter or the equipment? I don't see how this is anything other than an anecdote.

I have some of those that go the other way with very good shooters running similar equipment (Vudoos and 1.25" barrels) that based on their groups during testing, could probably get very close to a 2500. With rear bags and bipods. One of them is planning to shoot an ARA Unlimited match just to see if he can get a 2500 with a bag and bipod. That doesn't prove anything other than someone somewhere is good enough with the equipment they have.

That will be exciting. I for one am not a fan of one piece rests.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Do those scores have to do with the shooter or the equipment? I don't see how this is anything other than an anecdote.

I have some of those that go the other way with very good shooters running similar equipment (Vudoos and 1.25" barrels) that based on their groups during testing, could probably get very close to a 2500. With rear bags and bipods. One of them is planning to shoot an ARA Unlimited match just to see if he can get a 2500 with a bag and bipod. That doesn't prove anything other than someone somewhere is good enough with the equipment they have.

How many shot groups are you based this on? I believe the rifle would need to shoot 0.240 outside measured 25 shots to be capable of shooting a 2500 UL target
I know Landy has the ability to determine if a rifle is capable

Lee

 

[PWNolan]

Barrels are heat treated?

Yes

 

[gkgeiger]

Do those scores have to do with the shooter or the equipment? I don't see how this is anything other than an anecdote.

I have some of those that go the other way with very good shooters running similar equipment (Vudoos and 1.25" barrels) that based on their groups during testing, could probably get very close to a 2500. With rear bags and bipods. One of them is planning to shoot an ARA Unlimited match just to see if he can get a 2500 with a bag and bipod. That doesn't prove anything other than someone somewhere is good enough with the equipment they have.

Let us know how he does. Shooting tight groups and shooting 25 UL bulls are totally different. Wish him the best.

 

[PWNolan]

Let us know how he does. Shooting tight groups and shooting 25 UL bulls are totally different. Wish him the best.

I can shoot beautiful little groups with both my 10X and 2500X. Shooting 25 individual bulls is a completely different thing

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I can shoot beautiful little groups with both my 10X and 2500X. Shooting 25 individual bulls is a completely different thing

Yes, I agree that group and score are quite different. There's an old saying, very true that "all score shooters shoot groups but not all group shooters shoot score." I interpret this much about tuning by shooting small groups. I'm a score shooter first and I see no way one can score well with a rifle that won't group. But again they are different games but I find tuning by groups to work best for me. If the gun will group well, on the same rest and setup, it should reliably shoot good scores as well. JMHO.

 

[MUP]

Moving between shots and getting reset for the next bull is not quite the same as holding still for group shooting, at least it isn't for me. That's probably the hardest part is to get reset and then go thru the checklist each time, keeping it the same for every shot.

 

[BowChamp]

Do those scores have to do with the shooter or the equipment? I don't see how this is anything other than an anecdote.

I have some of those that go the other way with very good shooters running similar equipment (Vudoos and 1.25" barrels) that based on their groups during testing, could probably get very close to a 2500. With rear bags and bipods. One of them is planning to shoot an ARA Unlimited match just to see if he can get a 2500 with a bag and bipod. That doesn't prove anything other than someone somewhere is good enough with the equipment they have.

Like I said....rifle shoots pretty good. I'd love to put some rounds through it but I haven't had the opportunity to try it out cause he never stays long after a match.
Instead of learning how to shoot what he has, he's off to building a new rifle. My guess is he's still gonna be at the bottom of the pack.

I shot my Vudoo in ARA Unlimited last year using a bipod and rear bag.

 

[pmpski_1]

How many shot groups are you based this on? I believe the rifle would need to shoot 0.240 outside measured 25 shots to be capable of shooting a 2500 UL target
I know Landy has the ability to determine if a rifle is capable

Lee

I dunno exactly what they shoot, but definitely not some weak 5 shot groups. I've seen amazing 13 shot groups (full mag). I'm well aware of what it takes to get a 2500, they are as well. Can he do it? I don't know, he thinks he can. I'd love to see him try just for the fun of seeing it done with an NRL22 rifle set up.

They don't clean their barrels either, just the chamber!

But my entire point is that anecdotal evidence of "I know a guy who..." doesn't really prove anything at all. Random acts of accuracy occur all the time.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Like I said....rifle shoots pretty good. I'd love to put some rounds through it but I haven't had the opportunity to try it out cause he never stays long after a match.
Instead of learning how to shoot what he has, he's off to building a new rifle. My guess is he's still gonna be at the bottom of the pack.

I shot my Vudoo in ARA Unlimited last year using a bipod and rear bag.

You cannot buy a win you have to earn it. meaning you need to learn the rifle, when you can consistently shoot the same scores is when you need to improve on the equipment. a new built rifle does not guaranty a good shooting rifle.
you are a good example, you learned to shoot your rifle a certain way to make it work for you. with your next step it will be easier to acclimate how the rifle will want to be shot since you know already what you can do with it. that is what I mean by learning the rifle.

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I dunno exactly what they shoot, but definitely not some weak 5 shot groups. I've seen amazing 13 shot groups (full mag). I'm well aware of what it takes to get a 2500, they are as well. Can he do it? I don't know, he thinks he can. I'd love to see him try just for the fun of seeing it done with an NRL22 rifle set up.

They don't clean their barrels either, just the chamber!

But my entire point is that anecdotal evidence of "I know a guy who..." doesn't really prove anything at all. Random acts of accuracy occur all the time.

Yes, that would be something and not completely out of reach. just consider this, the recent big indoor match did not see everyone shooting 2500. and there was some of the best ARA shooters there. just one shot 0.001 out can mean the difference between shooting 2450 or 2500.

Lee

 

[Frankr]

I think this is a good read and makes it easier to understand why not the large diameter barrel.

A case for the .750 tenon on a RFBR rifle!

A case for the .750 barrel tenon on a RFBR rifle! All custom RFBR action makers use the .750 tenon. Why? It has nothing to do with strength, hoop strength, or union strength. The primary reason for the smaller tenon is to be able to use straight profile barrels. There is no magic in the...

benchrest.com

 

[buckeye68]

I can shoot beautiful little groups with both my 10X and 2500X. Shooting 25 individual bulls is a completely different thing

I agree. Last year I tried my hardest to shoot a 750 in IR 50/50 only to come up short by 1 point. I started the 2024 season off this year with a 749 and 54x’s. Shooting a 250 is easy. Doing it 3 times in a row in match conditions is completely different.

 

[HuskerP7M8]

Using the regulation 0.224” scoring plug, shooting a 2500 requires a CTC ES of 0.276” (0.500” – 0.224” = 0.276”).

With 5-shot grps you need a long-term average under 0.150” for a consistent chance of shooting 2500’s.

Why the discrepancy of 0.276” for 25-shot grps vs 0.150” for 5-shot grps?

Because, on average, every additional shot you fire into a grp causes the grp to grow. That means you can’t use 5-shot grps to predict scores, but it’s pretty simple to generate statistical correlations to precision (Score) using Excel charts and “Best Fit” trendlines to predict what scores are possible with 5-shot grps.

Landy

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Using the regulation 0.224” scoring plug, shooting a 2500 requires a CTC ES of 0.276” (0.500” – 0.224” = 0.276”).

With 5-shot grps you need a long-term average under 0.150” for a consistent chance of shooting 2500’s.

Why the discrepancy of 0.276” for 25-shot grps vs 0.150” for 5-shot grps?

Because, on average, every additional shot you fire into a grp causes the grp to grow. That means you can’t use 5-shot grps to predict scores, but it’s pretty simple to generate statistical correlations to precision (Score) using Excel charts and “Best Fit” trendlines to predict what scores are possible with 5-shot grps.

Landy

Thanks, Landy, for posting this information I know you had before but couldn't find any reference.

Lee

 

[VLNBYR]

I dunno exactly what they shoot, but definitely not some weak 5 shot groups. I've seen amazing 13 shot groups (full mag). I'm well aware of what it takes to get a 2500, they are as well. Can he do it? I don't know, he thinks he can. I'd love to see him try just for the fun of seeing it done with an NRL22 rifle set up.

They don't clean their barrels either, just the chamber!

But my entire point is that anecdotal evidence of "I know a guy who..." doesn't really prove anything at all. Random acts of accuracy occur all the time.

If all of these shooters are "well aware of what it takes to get a 2500" they will agree with me that it isn't going to happen. Not even close.

 

[USMCDOC]

Going out and trying to shoot a 1600 in smallbore f-class ain’t no easy task either

 

[Frankr]

Using the regulation 0.224” scoring plug, shooting a 2500 requires a CTC ES of 0.276” (0.500” – 0.224” = 0.276”).

With 5-shot grps you need a long-term average under 0.150” for a consistent chance of shooting 2500’s.

Why the discrepancy of 0.276” for 25-shot grps vs 0.150” for 5-shot grps?

Because, on average, every additional shot you fire into a grp causes the grp to grow. That means you can’t use 5-shot grps to predict scores, but it’s pretty simple to generate statistical correlations to precision (Score) using Excel charts and “Best Fit” trendlines to predict what scores are possible with 5-shot grps.

Landy

I really don’t know. I always shoot 5 separate 5 shot groups and take the average group size. So I think if I can agg a .250 for 5 five shot groups then a 2500 is possible. It’s possible but averaging a .250 ain’t an easy thing. More so due to ammo and shooter and not the Rifle.
Like if you can shoot 5 of theses in a row

Not just the group size but need to be centered in the bull. I didn’t plug it but the top right is dangerously close to a 50 if it ain’t. Very difficult. So much fun.
Ok I did plug it. Very difficult were going to call it 100 but it’s dangerously close.

Oh this target was posted for size reference purposes. I didn’t want you to think I was shooting big slotted groups like that on purpose.

 

[Frankr]

I’m quite certain I could have put another 5 or ten rounds right there that would’ve opened that any more than a .230. Unless I had a flyer. It’s one of them skinny barrels.