Did our Founding Fathers treat the African Americans and Native Americans as equals to themselves? The white man forced one group into slavery, and pushed the other off their land and marched them onto some pretty desolate places. I did not suggest "race" was the reason. However, it was in fact the "white man" who was responsible for the above examples. The color of a persons skin means nothing whatsoever to me, and the religion that person chooses to believe/engage in, is that persons choice. I have no say in the personal decisions of others. I agree that Governments are necessary and should be limited, however, I have yet to witness one that is "good".
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- Thread starter Raythemanroe
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odie
Silver $$ Contributor
JRS,
I have read a lot of your posts and now I am going to correct you.
The White man did not create the slaves here . They bought a product. The slaves were sold by THERE OWN PEOPLE "BLACKS".
Next , yes we did conquer the indians. What of Europe and the various tribes that were there. Also on your statement of "Place them on desolate or unwanted ground" You are writing about something you know nothing about. I am a 5th Generation rancher (and yes my ancestors fought the native Americans for the land) would trade my ground in a heartbeat for some of the desolate reservation ground. How now are the blacksame and indians treated? The Whites have to go to work everyday, the others get ,especially the native Americans , free food, housing, electricity, medical treatment ect. That we pay for while they set at home and tear up and destroy the homes we give them.
Now you are informed.
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dragman
Site $$ Sponsor
And how is your comment not ment to piss off anyone who isn't white? Forget slavery we aren't that far removed from opportunity kept from anyone not white. While fixing it isn't easy making bold separatist remarks isn't the answer. Idk what the answer is.
I did not say the white man created slaves. That's your words. You need to brush-up on the reasons the BIA is in existence, and how and why funding has changed. The BIA is one of the oldest departments in the Federal Government. By forcing them onto reservations, we were able to contain them, and deny them the same opportunities, jobs, education, food, etc; etc; etc, that we enjoy. Yet another form of segregation. I worked with many Native Americans in Arizona and New York, my late wife was an Apache, and my son is part Apache. I know quite a bit about Native Americans and the reservations.
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A list of the leading slave merchants is almost identical with a list of the region's prominent families: the Fanueils, Royalls, and Cabots of Massachusetts; the Wantons, Browns, and Champlins of Rhode Island; the Whipples of New Hampshire; the Eastons of Connecticut; Willing & Morris of Philadelphia. To this day, it's difficult to find an old North institution of any antiquity that isn't tainted by slavery. Ezra Stiles imported slaves while president of Yale. Six slave merchants served as mayor of Philadelphia. Even a liberal bastion like Brown University has the shameful blot on its escutcheon. It is named for the Brown brothers, Nicholas, John, Joseph, and Moses, manufacturers and traders who shipped salt, lumber, meat -- and slaves. And like many business families of the time, the Browns had indirect connections to slavery via rum distilling. John Brown, who paid half the cost of the college's first library, became the first Rhode Islander prosecuted under the federal Slave Trade Act of 1794 and had to forfeit his slave ship. Historical evidence also indicates that slaves were used at the family's candle factory in Providence, its ironworks in Scituate, and to build Brown's University Hall.[4]
Even after slavery was outlawed in the North, ships out of New England continued to carry thousands of Africans to the American South. Some 156,000 slaves were brought to the United States in the period 1801-08, almost all of them on ships that sailed from New England ports that had recently outlawed slavery. Rhode Island slavers alone imported an average of 6,400 Africans annually into the U.S. in the years 1805 and 1806. The financial base of New England's antebellum manufacturing boom was money it had made in shipping. And that shipping money was largely acquired directly or indirectly from slavery, whether by importing Africans to the Americas, transporting slave-grown cotton to England, or hauling Pennsylvania wheat and Rhode Island rum to the slave-labor colonies of the Caribbean.
&&
Long after the U.S. slave trade officially ended, the more extensive movement of Africans to Brazil and Cuba continued. The U.S. Navy never was assiduous in hunting down slave traders. The much larger British Navy was more aggressive, and it attempted a blockade of the slave coast of Africa, but the U.S. was one of the few nations that did not permit British patrols to search its vessels, so slave traders continuing to bring human cargo to Brazil and Cuba generally did so under the U.S. flag. They also did so in ships built for the purpose by Northern shipyards, in ventures financed by Northern manufacturers.
In a notorious case, the famous schooner-yacht Wanderer, pride of the New York Yacht Club, put in to Port Jefferson Harbor in April 1858 to be fitted out for the slave trade. Everyone looked the other way -- which suggests this kind of thing was not unusual -- except the surveyor of the port, who reported his suspicions to the federal officials. The ship was seized and towed to New York, but her captain talked (and possibly bought) his way out and was allowed to sail for Charleston, S.C.
Fitting out was completed there, the Wanderer was cleared by Customs, and she sailed to Africa where she took aboard some 600 blacks. On Nov. 28, 1858, she reached Jekyll Island, Georgia, where she illegally unloaded the 465 survivors of what is generally called the last shipment of slaves to arrive in the United States.
http://slavenorth.com/profits.htm
Even after slavery was outlawed in the North, ships out of New England continued to carry thousands of Africans to the American South. Some 156,000 slaves were brought to the United States in the period 1801-08, almost all of them on ships that sailed from New England ports that had recently outlawed slavery. Rhode Island slavers alone imported an average of 6,400 Africans annually into the U.S. in the years 1805 and 1806. The financial base of New England's antebellum manufacturing boom was money it had made in shipping. And that shipping money was largely acquired directly or indirectly from slavery, whether by importing Africans to the Americas, transporting slave-grown cotton to England, or hauling Pennsylvania wheat and Rhode Island rum to the slave-labor colonies of the Caribbean.
&&
Long after the U.S. slave trade officially ended, the more extensive movement of Africans to Brazil and Cuba continued. The U.S. Navy never was assiduous in hunting down slave traders. The much larger British Navy was more aggressive, and it attempted a blockade of the slave coast of Africa, but the U.S. was one of the few nations that did not permit British patrols to search its vessels, so slave traders continuing to bring human cargo to Brazil and Cuba generally did so under the U.S. flag. They also did so in ships built for the purpose by Northern shipyards, in ventures financed by Northern manufacturers.
In a notorious case, the famous schooner-yacht Wanderer, pride of the New York Yacht Club, put in to Port Jefferson Harbor in April 1858 to be fitted out for the slave trade. Everyone looked the other way -- which suggests this kind of thing was not unusual -- except the surveyor of the port, who reported his suspicions to the federal officials. The ship was seized and towed to New York, but her captain talked (and possibly bought) his way out and was allowed to sail for Charleston, S.C.
Fitting out was completed there, the Wanderer was cleared by Customs, and she sailed to Africa where she took aboard some 600 blacks. On Nov. 28, 1858, she reached Jekyll Island, Georgia, where she illegally unloaded the 465 survivors of what is generally called the last shipment of slaves to arrive in the United States.
http://slavenorth.com/profits.htm
It's good to look at past mistakes on all side and learn from them I agree...but to live in the past day after day to justify a poor me victim mentality in hopes of a free ride now off the backs of those who work now is simply wrong and worse, a form of SELF destruction, although it doesn't appear that way to the mind/ego. People are simply happier in life when they are able to help others VOLUNTARILY without things being forcefully taken away from them under the guise of the egocentric blame/justification ideology. This website is a great example of that I think where over the years so many have helped me with my hobby expecting or hoping for nothing more than a THANKS. I've tried to help others when I can also and feel good about me when they say it helped. My bet is you are the same. I think we need to get out of this "skin color" game being imposed on all of us by the MSM day in and day out to keep us divided while that small group at the top of the oligarchical food chain/power structure continue rob us of more and more liberty and property for their own self interest.
You have to have seen the double standard in play when we have presidential candidate that continuously touts this victimhood mentality for her personal gain, yet is able to obfuscate any responsibility that any of us would have been imprisoned for and punished severely long ago. The rule of law must be equal for all for it to be law or justice or freedom for any.
I offer you my carefully and well thought out opinion of Trump and you offer me a video? Frankly, I am disappointed. You are not going to show any new news on Hillary there have been 25 years of accusations. For the record there have been no legal actions or charges or convictions against Hillary. You are acting like a Trump pundit. I make my case against Trump..you deflect to Hillary. I am willing to vote for Hillary with all of her warts and baggage. You are obviously willing to do the same with Trump.
I stand by my observations of Trump racism, sexism, xenophobia, homophobia, demagoguery. Please explain to me how I somehow misunderstood Trump at his various rallys and speeches. Please tell me what he really meant. If you agree with him on his positions on these issues it's okay. You have a right to your opinion.
I made my case for why there will be no wall on our southern border and why it would be never happen and how he would never be able to make Mexico pay for it. Please tell me where I am wrong. I made my case why the deportation of 11 million immigrants is not going to happen. Please tell me how Trump is going to make that happen. The proposed Muslim band is becoming more and more fuzzy. It would not be fair to ask for any explanation on that one. I would love to see Trump's tax returns. Never going to happen. The second amendment comment. Obama being the founder of Isis. Now accusing the media of rigging the elections. I can't imagine what the next crazy statement is going to come out of his 90 mph mouth backed up by his 10 mph brain, but I have little doubt it is going to happen. Ray
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
digrazir, how can you NOT comprehend the complications of open borders?
4% of Muslims are radicalized, anther 11-13% are sympathetic to their cause with their saying or doing nothing, if they did know of an attack planed by one of their own.
I had Muslims work for me, I knew them quite well. I asked them directly, and very few would turn on their own brother.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/08/isis-terrorist-tells-feds-jihadist-brothers-mexico/
4% of Muslims are radicalized, anther 11-13% are sympathetic to their cause with their saying or doing nothing, if they did know of an attack planed by one of their own.
I had Muslims work for me, I knew them quite well. I asked them directly, and very few would turn on their own brother.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/08/isis-terrorist-tells-feds-jihadist-brothers-mexico/
odie
Silver $$ Contributor
I was not making separatist remarks. I was stating fact. The White people bought and resold a product. The tribes in Africa preyed on each other selling the survivors to who ever would buy and then resell the PRODUCT for of course profit. And for the unsaid feeling of my bias on native Americans I live in the state with the largest reservations and populations of native Americans. I also do business on a regular basis on the reservation. I am related by blood to the Lakota and have very good friends within the tribe. So I to speak with extensive experiece and I commented on what I see and have seen.
Opportunity is there for any and all who have the drive to pursue it regardless of color. The continued speel of what has been done happen 100+ years ago and the whiners need to get over it and move on. Start working together to do something productive and stop pointing fingers at the white people, find an answer. The hag is not it
Please go go back and read my original post...the argument was not either for or against...it was the how...
Your personal contact with a few Muslims the should be basis of US policy? Please!!! Ray
You just made the case I presented by your own words sir: "MY MY MY MY MY MY carefully thought out OPINION OPINION OPINION OPINION OPINION"
Respectfully sir, you are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to make your opinions FACTS nor force your opinions on others.
Your predictions and projections are not FACTS...they also are YOUR opinions.
My opinion is that you have a lot of fear inside you which is what is behind your opinions. But I ADMIT ADMIT ADMIT that is only my opinion and I could be wrong. I am not now nor ever have been nor ever will be inside your mind and heart, nor you mine, nor you others. I can only look at people's past and present behavior to form an opinion. With Hillary there are 40 years of documented FACTS to observe about here POLITICAL choices, TENDENCIES, and ACTIONS.
With Donald Trump, there is no POLITICAL history.
dragman
Site $$ Sponsor
Read the end of your remarks. The "whites" have to go to work while everyone else gets a free ride. Not an exact quote but close
And to you sir I have to agree to disagree and I yield the floor. Ray
What law in effect TODAY...is FORCING Native Americans onto reservations? I have very close friends that are Native Americans that are not living on any reservation and doing quite well in open society.
I also know first hand that despite some of these very affluent reservations with free money, housing, medical etc etc etc, they have turned into some of the worst drug infested/addicted communities in the country. Very sad for the upcoming youth indeed...but of course that's the "white" man's fault too???
Read Revelations in the Bible. We are close fellows, I may not see it but my Grandchildren may, and they will no right were to find my stash.
And for those that don't believe in that, try Isaac Newton or Nostiadanus. They all can't be to far off. Newton figured 2060!
Everyone loves to interpret the second Amendment, were in the first does it say religion of hate? free exercise thereof doesn't do it for me.
Joe Salt
And for those that don't believe in that, try Isaac Newton or Nostiadanus. They all can't be to far off. Newton figured 2060!
Everyone loves to interpret the second Amendment, were in the first does it say religion of hate? free exercise thereof doesn't do it for me.
Joe Salt
I rebutted you point by point. It fell on your deaf ears and you are on the same baseless rant verbatim. Fact -Hillary is a PROVEN liar. The whole world knows it. Bob Woodward called her a "congenital liar" back when she was in the Whitehouse. She was fired as an attorney during Watergate for lying. True, no one has had the gonads to bring charges against her....but it's still early in the process. The October surprise is inevitable....there is just too much corruption being done by the Clintons to hide every piece of evidence.
And your problem with Trump is "stupid talk"? B.S. you were never going to vote for Jeb or Cassick. You are a demo zealot and would vote the party line no matter who they put in. You are threatened by the possibility Trump will get in and upset the status quo which is making big bucks for those with connections. I know what goes on with those in tight with the demo party...I see it every day, it's been going on for decades.
I smell trouble in paradise -Hillary and Joe Biden make weekly trips to Scranton, Pa to campaign....they both have strong family ties there. That area has never voted anything but Dem.
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odie
Silver $$ Contributor
True. Who is constantly blamed for the ills of the indians, the black americans? The whites. Who is supposed to be depriving them of any opportunities? The whites. Who is the majority of the tax payers ? 3 guesses and the first two do not count. What I am saying is a large portion of the blacks and indians need to stop.living in the past, step up and stop blaming the whites while being supported by the labor of the majority of the white population . When that happens we can start to create a even better democratic republic where each reap the rewards of there OWN labor.
I am not going to try to change your opinion of me because I really don't care. I will absolutely stand on my belief that Bush or Kasich would be way ahead in polls over Hillary. With all of her history and flaws there is no way she would win. The only chance she had to win was to run against a candidate more disliked than her and at this point she is winning and winning big. Another week or two of Trump stupidity could seal the deal. Ray
Obviously, the Potus does not think so. He convicts white cops in every news conference he holds after a shooting. That fits the definition of racist....and he should be charged for inciting riots....but under this regime NO ONE is held accountable....only falsely accusing police. "Accountability" has been wiped out of our language.
She lies without peril. How do you explain that to your grandkids? How do you rationalize your choice when they ask you who you supported for Potus? No need to answer....you did already ...."you really don't care" about right from wrong.
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