ATF learned how to do tax stamps quickly

[dantiff2]

This is very hard to watch : ( These people are paid politicians and not "gun experts".

 

[nwmnbowhunter]

nwmnbowhunter trust or individual?

Individual

 

[FNSafari]

I almost fell out of my chair. I applied for a tax stamp for a new suppressor electronically on Monday.
I got approved today (2 days). Since when is the government this quick? I am betting sales will be going up

Some of the approvals have been farmed out to third parties.

 

[wildcatter]

I have no use for one, to me it would be like buying baffles to quiet my Harley. If I don't want to here it, I use ear plugs, or take the truck. With my guns same thing except if I don't feel like wear plugs. I shoot the air guns.

But glad those that enjoy them are seeing quicker approval, it should be instant, just like the background checks. They started the same way, took forever, even if I could get thru to call one in, today instant. I would have thought they would have been intelligent enough to incorporate what the learned approving them would have been a no brainer here.

 

[urbanrifleman]

So if they can approve a firearm in a few minutes over the phone, what's the holdup with the silencer? What law requires all of these additional regulations?

I'm here to tell you brother, we don't have enough lawyers on our side. All the lawyers are on the other side. I would simply be interested in challenging all of these regulations as whether or not they actually apply to the law.

 

[DRK]

So if they can approve a firearm in a few minutes over the phone, what's the holdup with the silencer? What law requires all of these additional regulations?

I'm here to tell you brother, we don't have enough lawyers on our side. All the lawyers are on the other side. I would simply be interested in challenging all of these regulations as whether or not they actually apply to the law.

Umm, the NFA & GCA require it for all NFA firearms, MG, silencer, SBR, SBS, & DD. Since NFA firearms have to be registered in the NFRTR, the NFA examiner has to update the NFRTR for an NFA firearm, Title I firearms have no such requirement.

Also, keep in mind, fingerprints are required for NFA firearms vs. calling NICS without fingerprints for Title I firearms. Fingerprints are the only reliable indicator to prove identity of someone not in front of you, no two people have been proven to have identical fingerprints.

ATF does not run fingerprints, that is done by FBI and largely waits on a fingerprint examine do so.

Now whether the tax provisions of the NFA & associated registration requirements are constitutional is a whole different matter. Ultimately, SCOTUS, would have to rule on the constitutionality of the NFA.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Umm, the NFA & GCA require it for all NFA firearms, MG, silencer, SBR, SBS, & DD. Since NFA firearms have to be registered in the NFRTR, the NFA examiner has to update the NFRTR for an NFA firearm, Title I firearms have no such requirement.

Also, keep in mind, fingerprints are required for NFA firearms vs. calling NICS without fingerprints for Title I firearms. Fingerprints are the only reliable indicator to prove identity of someone not in front of you, no two people have been proven to have identical fingerprints.

ATF does not run fingerprints, that is done by FBI and largely waits on a fingerprint examine do so.

Now whether the tax provisions of the NFA & associated registration requirements are constitutional is a whole different matter. Ultimately, SCOTUS, would have to rule on the constitutionality of the NFA.

The original 1934 law requires fingerprints? I guess what I'm saying is I'd like to read the law. Not the regulations that came later, the law as it was written originally.

 

[DRK]

The original 1934 law requires fingerprints? I guess what I'm saying is I'd like to read the law. Not the regulations that came later, the law as it was written originally.

The original NFA passed in 1934 was amended by Title II of the GCA in 1968 after the Haynes decision by SCOTUS and is what is enforced today.

26 USC 5841(a)(3) requires identification of persons entitled to possess an NFA firearm.

(a)Central registry
The Secretary shall maintain a central registry of all firearms in the United States which are not in the possession or under the control of the United States. This registry shall be known as the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. The registry shall include—
(1)identification of the firearm;
(2)date of registration; and
(3)identification and address of person entitled to possession of the firearm.

 

[urbanrifleman]

The original NFA passed in 1934 was amended by Title II of the GCA in 1968 after the Haynes decision by SCOTUS and is what is enforced today.

26 USC 5841(a)(3) requires identification of persons entitled to possess an NFA firearm.

(a)Central registry
The Secretary shall maintain a central registry of all firearms in the United States which are not in the possession or under the control of the United States. This registry shall be known as the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. The registry shall include—
(1)identification of the firearm;
(2)date of registration; and
(3)identification and address of person entitled to possession of the firearm.

Hmmm.

So, the law doesn't actually say anything about fingerprints or facial recognition as a requirement. Those were added by the ATF and FBI, I would guess.

 

[Camper]

I bought another suppressor today. The kid who helps me all the time said he anticipates 2 months. Still better than any other estimate in the past.

 

[VA_XTC_Shooter]

Hmmm.

So, the law doesn't actually say anything about fingerprints or facial recognition as a requirement. Those were added by the ATF and FBI, I would guess.

That's how all laws are. Laws are written pretty open by Congress. Executive branch agencies write regulations how to implement the laws.

This is also before the USC, has executive branched overreached their role...or more accurately, congress quit doing their job.

 

[urbanrifleman]

That's how all laws are. Laws are written pretty open by Congress. Executive branch agencies write regulations how to implement the laws.

This is also before the USC, has executive branched overreached their role...or more accurately, congress quit doing their job.

I really think we don't have enough lawyers. Because it sounds like to me every one of these elements are challengable as overreach.

 

[3Ackleys]

With the arguments in the stabilizing brace case before the supreme court, the ATF is basing arguments on laws that if the Bruen decision is applied to, would no longer apply. Then there is the argument about it being an unconstitutional tax.
The bump stock case is also bringing up bigger questions about the power of the executive branch. Basically Congress has refused to do it's job for years, so the Exec branch has stepped in and written laws under the interpretation clause, that is all being called into question.

The brace case is not before the US S.C. When the District court issues a permanent injunction, then the ATF can appeal to the 5th circuit court. If they uphold the prelim. inj. then the ATF can petition the US S.C. to look at it, probably in the 2025-2026 term.
The brace case was an ATF ruling that made them legal, then they changed them to illegal.

The NFA is completely different, it is a law made by congress, signed by the president in 1934.It created the registration of silencers, SBR's and machineguns. It also created the associated $200 tax. Of the distasteful things congress does, creating taxes is in their power. There is little chance of it going away.

 

[Sandstorm]

creating taxes is in their power. There is little chance of it going away.

Im sure there thinking of what else to put a tax on right now...hmmm.let's see.
You can still take a crap, but they will tax your Toilet paper too..

 

[DRK]

The NFA is completely different, it is a law made by congress, signed by the president in 1934.It created the registration of silencers, SBR's and machineguns. It also created the associated $200 tax. Of the distasteful things congress does, creating taxes is in their power. There is little chance of it going away.

I would argue otherwise, same as Jim Crow laws creating poll taxes, literacy tests, and the like were struck down in the Reconstruction era post civil war. The taxation, registration, & transfer requirements created under the NFA are unconstitutional for two reasons, they tax a fundamental right to possess arms in common use and they do not pass the 1791 text, history, & tradition test as SCOTUS ruled in Bruen.

 

[VA_XTC_Shooter]

The brace case is not before the US S.C. When the District court issues a permanent injunction, then the ATF can appeal to the 5th circuit court. If they uphold the prelim. inj. then the ATF can petition the US S.C. to look at it, probably in the 2025-2026 term.
The brace case was an ATF ruling that made them legal, then they changed them to illegal.

The NFA is completely different, it is a law made by congress, signed by the president in 1934.It created the registration of silencers, SBR's and machineguns. It also created the associated $200 tax. Of the distasteful things congress does, creating taxes is in their power. There is little chance of it going away.

Correct, I conflated the cases on which is in front of SCOTUS.

This lawyer explains it better.

 

[FNSafari]

I really think we don't have enough lawyers. Because it sounds like to me every one of these elements are challengable as overreach.

That's the idea when laws are written....to subsidize the legal community. Vague and arguable are in, specific and to the point is out,

 

[killahog]

I guess I better go apply electronically if I want to use a suppressor , I applied at Silencer Central in January of 2023 the last time I called them was March 7th .They said they are preparing to send an email to the local Sheriff. I will never do business with these assholes again. They make a big deal of the fact that (It gets shipped. straight to your door) Well I could have walked to Iowa and picked it quicker.

 

[dantiff2]

I guess I better go apply electronically if I want to use a suppressor , I applied at Silencer Central in January of 2023 the last time I called them was March 7th .They said they are preparing to send an email to the local Sheriff. I will never do business with these assholes again. They make a big deal of the fact that (It gets shipped. straight to your door) Well I could have walked to Iowa and picked it quicker.

Takes about 30 days to receive after you get the approval, one of the downsides to dealing with them but their process is painless…

 

[urbanrifleman]

The brace case is not before the US S.C. When the District court issues a permanent injunction, then the ATF can appeal to the 5th circuit court. If they uphold the prelim. inj. then the ATF can petition the US S.C. to look at it, probably in the 2025-2026 term.
The brace case was an ATF ruling that made them legal, then they changed them to illegal.

The NFA is completely different, it is a law made by congress, signed by the president in 1934.It created the registration of silencers, SBR's and machineguns. It also created the associated $200 tax. Of the distasteful things congress does, creating taxes is in their power. There is little chance of it going away.

They overturned prohibition. Heck, slavery was made against the law. Women got the vote.

LOTS OF LAWS get overturned.