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ATF data base

COLT45SA

Silver $$ Contributor
Most gun owners know that the ATF requires a call in for all firearms purchases. What they are not aware of is that no records were suppose to be kept on that purchase. The check was to see if the purchase was being made by a person who was qualified to make that purchase, and if they were qualified that was the end of it. No long term records of that purchase were supposed to beto be kept by the ATF. However we now learn that everything is being kept/saved/stored on a data-base, EVERYTHING~!
When buyer has a carry permit, the same background information is looked at to see if they have a criminal record or something else that would prevent them from owning or carrying a firearm.
So why is the ATF to maintain this data-base~? Seems to me that without congressional authorization this practice should not be allowed to continue.
 
This has been going on since Bill Clinton was president. A local businessman helped a guy in his quest to become a US rep. To repay the favor he promised the businessman's son a job as a congressional aid, but he made too many commitments and no aid position was available. To try and appear to keep his word he found the son a job at the ATF building this data base. The father was one of the contractors we used regularly, and he had always been a straight shooter and I believe his story to be true. When FFLs die or close the business ATF takes the hardbound book, and the son said his job was to transfer data from the book to a computer. I am sure the data they have is far from complete, but they have been working on it for years. At this point I bet what they have has been spread out and hidden so well it would be impossible to find all copies.
 
DaveTooley said:
You got your information Where?

In NC if you have a CC permit no background check is required.
Click to expand...
Google has a posting that verifies it.
USA Today

https://thegunzone.com › what-gets-reported-to-the-atf-to-buy-a-firearm
What gets reported to the ATF to buy a firearm? - TheGunZone
Feb 18, 20242. Does the ATF keep a record of every firearm purchase? Yes, the ATF maintains a database of all firearm transactions reported by licensed dealers. 3. What information is reported to the ATF when buying a firearm? The dealer reports the buyer's name, address, date of birth, and the make, model, and serial number of the firearm. 4.
 
How do you think they resolve issues of “I was given a proceed by xxxxx” that’s why I sold the firearm to a felon. Both sides keep records
 
Md. is very corrupt about this. I was once denied due to a transposed SS number. I called MSP firearms division. They has my SS number wrong. It got sorted out, but during the conversation, he said "wow, you have a lot of guns". I asked how he knew that given that records are to be deleted after the purchase. He stumbled badly, couldn't answer.
 
Why would anyone be surprised the ATF has comprehensive and complete records?
I would only be surprised if they did not.
They make up their rules and make up laws that only exist in their minds.
I hope they wind up like USAID may, and lots of other alphabet organizations.
 
COLT45SA said:
Google has a posting that verifies it.
USA Today

https://thegunzone.com › what-gets-reported-to-the-atf-to-buy-a-firearm
What gets reported to the ATF to buy a firearm? - TheGunZone
Feb 18, 20242. Does the ATF keep a record of every firearm purchase? Yes, the ATF maintains a database of all firearm transactions reported by licensed dealers. 3. What information is reported to the ATF when buying a firearm? The dealer reports the buyer's name, address, date of birth, and the make, model, and serial number of the firearm. 4.
Click to expand...
They do NOT ASK for make, model and serial number. They ask "handgun', 'long gun', or 'other firearm'. You actually trust google?! By law, record of the background check are to be destroyed within 24hrs. (when conducted through the FBI. State checks may be different, they may keep records of purchases). Are they? Unknown. I think NTN is retained (The number the licensed dealer is given to identify the transaction).
 
Last edited:
The make, model , serial number and caliber are recorded on the 4473, which stays in the FFLs files until his business is no longer. Then, the records, including the 'bound books', are sent to the records division. If I am not mistaken, the records kept by the FFL must be kept of a minimum of 20yrs. The 4473s and 'bound books' are kept in case the firearm has to be 'traced', in the event it was used in the commission of a crime. "Where did it come from, and where did it go?".
 
Well, if they do keep information that they are not supposed to, they can never use it to legally pursue anyone. Same as an illegal search and seizure, it is "fruit of the poisonous tree" and unusable.
 
shortgrass said:
They do NOT ASK for make, model and serial number. They ask "handgun', 'long gun', or 'other firearm'. You actually trust google?! By law, record of the background check are to be destroyed within 24hrs. (when conducted through the FBI. State checks may be different, they may keep records of purchases). Are they? Unknown. I think NTN is retained (The number the licensed dealer is given to identify the transaction).
Click to expand...
REALLY~? Then why is it a federal form that I just had to submit~?
 
COLT45SA said:
Most gun owners know that the ATF requires a call in for all firearms purchases. What they are not aware of is that no records were suppose to be kept on that purchase. The check was to see if the purchase was being made by a person who was qualified to make that purchase, and if they were qualified that was the end of it. No long term records of that purchase were supposed to beto be kept by the ATF. However we now learn that everything is being kept/saved/stored on a data-base, EVERYTHING~!
When buyer has a carry permit, the same background information is looked at to see if they have a criminal record or something else that would prevent them from owning or carrying a firearm.
So why is the ATF to maintain this data-base~? Seems to me that without congressional authorization this practice should not be allowed to continue.
Click to expand...
it has been in my time we are supposed to have no federal gun registration, background checks with no problems are supposed to be destroyed and an out of business dealers records are supposed to be kept by atf but not computerized since that would be registration. supposedly atf has a warehouse full of boxes of 4473s. DUH— how do we think they run a firearms check in a few minutes. that info they get is on some datbase. all the firearms info the gov gets about us is computerized if they can do it. i would only be surprised if what the OP claims was not true.
 
COLT45SA said:
REALLY~? Then why is it a federal form that I just had to submit~?
Click to expand...
Dude, you need to be clear about what you have to say. I have held a Federal Firearms license since 2000. During the FBI background check I have NEVER been asked for make, model and serial number. The FBI during the background check does ask for 'handgun', 'long gun', or 'other firearm'. Yes, those things are listed on form 4473, and that is the sellers part to fill out and the FBI doesn't ask for that during the background check. You need to remove that tin foil liner from your hat.
 
COLT45SA said:
Most gun owners know that the ATF requires a call in for all firearms purchases. What they are not aware of is that no records were suppose to be kept on that purchase. The check was to see if the purchase was being made by a person who was qualified to make that purchase, and if they were qualified that was the end of it. No long term records of that purchase were supposed to beto be kept by the ATF. However we now learn that everything is being kept/saved/stored on a data-base, EVERYTHING~!
When buyer has a carry permit, the same background information is looked at to see if they have a criminal record or something else that would prevent them from owning or carrying a firearm.
So why is the ATF to maintain this data-base~? Seems to me that without congressional authorization this practice should not be allowed to continue.
Click to expand...
While it doesn't surprise me that the government keeps a record, all they have immediately is that John Q Public bought a gun. No serial number, brand or model information is transferred during a NICS check. That all changes though, when a FFL gives up their license. All 4473s are then submitted to the government as part of closing out the license. THEN, they have the specific gun information.
 
Also there have been fires/floods that have destroyed unknown number of 4473 forms. When ATF does visit a FFL, they do check to make sure they (4473)are filled out correctly as they do with repair orders(firearms on site for repair serial numbers if applicable) and inventory is logged. Firearm(inventory) counts must match logs.
 
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