ATF BOMBSHELL re AR Pistol Braces

[mikecr]

Is this then an SBR?

 

[SecondsCount]

I'm wondering if the tax stamp money on SBRs was starting to dry up

 

[urbanrifleman]

The ATF cannot create law.

Why does the atf have any authority at all? It's a revenue agency.

A generation ago gun owners recognized the unlawful authority of the ATF. It's time for this generation to stop recognizing it.

 

[kzin]

Is this then an SBR?
View attachment 1401108

How is there any hope that it's not?
Chest mounted?
I happened to notice in the new document atf says chest mounted counts as shouldered.

 

[YEW PLUCKER]

So, when I took my AR pistol deer hunting in another state 2 weeks ago it was Ok, now I need to get the ATFs permission to hunt on my own land under the restricted season?

GTFO

This is the first step to registering firearms. I see this as the trial to see if they can gain mass compliance. They don't care if it is constitutional or not... none of the states pulling out ban do either. There is zero consequence for them making up law by fiat, only that it has to be challenged then thrown out, wasting time and money.

There will be massive non-compliance with this new edict.

The Gun Grabbers lost this argument thirty years ago, they just don't know it.

The Clintons are personally responsible for the AR becoming America's Rifle. Because of them, and the Brady Bunch, hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, went out and bought an AR type rifle. These are people who probably never would have bought one before they were told they shouldn't, couldn't, didn't "need to".

 

[johnfred1965]

Maybe they're the felons in the first place for creating treasonous acts that directly
conflict with the simple clear language of the second amendment.
The big problem is that THEY never suffer consequences when it is found even by the
U.S. Supreme court that THEY committed a violation of the Constitution by passing
UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS, yet WE ALWAYS SUFFER CONSEQUENCES for the
slightest unlawful infractions.
GOOD FOR THEE BUT NOT FOR ME

What is the penalty for violating the constitution?

 

[justpassinthru]

Copied directly from their eform:

"To lawfully register the firearm to a trust, the trust must have possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023. Accordingly, you must submit with the application documentation that establishes the trust possessed the firearm before January 13, 2023."

The way I read this, by the time we were told of this requirement, it was too late to fulfill that requirement.
There are other options but a trust is the most popular.

 

[BlueWater]

What is the penalty for violating the constitution?

Nothing whatsoever, if the history of the U.S. is any guide.

Pathetic and infuriating, ain't it?

 

[dantiff2]

 

[nakneker]

I just read thru the thread. If I’m understanding this correctly you cannot simply take the brace off and keep the pistol with just the buffer tube? Is that correct?

 

[Knotwild]

There's going to be a lot of confusion going around about this. No one will stand up as they will surely make an example out of whoever is the first.

At any rate, the lawyer who did my trust was nice enough to send this email out today. All credit for this goes to Robert Merting - a great guy and a pleasure to do trust work with. He does business in South Carolina. I'm not going to quote anything. It's definitely worth your time to read it.

The US Attorney General signed ATF 2021R-08F, the final rule regarding pistols and stabilizing braces, on Friday the 13th.

Weighing in at a mere 293 pages, I have not yet had the chance for a thorough review. However, a few urgent preliminary points are worth making: The Rule becomes effective on the date published in the Code of Federal Regulations. IF you possess a pistol with a stabilizer brace as of the date of publication, you can register it without paying a tax. Transfers after the date of publication must be done through a Form 4 or other NFA appropriate form. While the ATF may enforce this rule immediately, the Agency states it will wait at least 60 days before initiating enforcement. A pistol with stabilizer brace acquired after publication cannot legally be registered without paying a tax. The ATF suggests registering the firearm through e-forms, but has stated it will honor paper registrations postmarked by the 120th day after publication.

Adjust your conduct accordingly. Do not transfer such firearms after publication of the rule. IF YOU WANT TO REGISTER THE FIREARM IN YOUR TRUST, ASSIGN IT TO THE TRUST ASAP AND BEFORE THE RULE PUBLISHES.

When will this rule publish? Check the Public Inspection Issue of the CFR: https://www.federalregister.gov/public-inspection/current#regular-filing So far the rule is not listed for publication yet, and the next scheduled publication is January 17th. It could be anytime after that.

 

[mousegunner]

I don't have one or want one but when you say AR pistol this is what I'm thinking of. So you take the brace off and you're left with this, a braceless pistol....which it is

 

[Adam in WI]

Is there a maximum allowable length to the buffer tube on a pistol? If not, what's to stop someone from just putting a rifle length buffer tube on and pressing that against their shoulder?

 

[LVLAaron]

Is there a maximum allowable length to the buffer tube on a pistol? If not, what's to stop someone from just putting a rifle length buffer tube on and pressing that against their shoulder?

That would be an SBR per the rules. That's what prevents you from doing it.

 

[Beiruty]

View attachment 1401532

I don't have one or want one but when you say AR pistol this is what I'm thinking of. So you take the brace off and you're left with this, a braceless pistol....which it is

View attachment 1401538

An SBR

 

[Dusty Stevens]

so an AR pistol, purchased new as a pistol, never having a stupid "brace" on it is what now? and where all is it considered anything but a pistol?

 

[kzin]

I just read thru the thread. If I’m understanding this correctly you cannot simply take the brace off and keep the pistol with just the buffer tube? Is that correct

A pistol tube in itself is ok. Assuming it's a gun where the tube is a necessary part.
You still should check you don't violate the other criteria.
Have sights that are usable as a pistol.
An overall length and weight that are manageable as a pistol.
Not a rifle length tube.
Don't have witnesses or video of yourself shouldering the tube.
Don't store or transport the brace with the pistol it came off.

If you want to be even safer go to an extra short buffer system.

I don't mean to support ATF infringement but really the rule does largely parallel reality.
If you use it as an sbr they probably call it an sbr.
If you use it as a pistol they probably call it a pistol.
The part that is rotten is they make it next to impossible to know for sure what's legal until they decide.

 

[kzin]

Is there a maximum allowable length to the buffer tube on a pistol? If not, what's to stop someone from just putting a rifle length buffer tube on and pressing that against their shoulder?

One of the new criteria is length of pull.
Anything with a length of pull similar to a rifle makes a rifle.
Brace, cheekrest, counterbalance, battery holder, plain rifle buffer, doesn't matter.

 

[kzin]

View attachment 1401532

I don't have one or want one but when you say AR pistol this is what I'm thinking of. So you take the brace off and you're left with this, a braceless pistol....which it is

View attachment 1401538

If you don't put rifle sights on it that's still a pistol.
Even if you did it's hard to say there is enough length of pull to make that a rifle.

 

[kzin]

here is the other extreme of an AR 'pistol' from the one posted above