AR Pistol Braces under ATF Review to reclassify as SBR

[3Sigma]

Wow. That document is crap. They are trying to use intent in a technical definition. No clear direction in that.

My guess is this was done without the input or blessing of the technical division as it is clearly trying to redefine a SBR and pistol based on an accessory. No clear line of LOP limits, OAL, etc.

Much like 80%, their own language is going to be used against them. I don't see this going anywhere as long as it is challenged in the right federal district.

 

[457ciSBC]

Years ago I built an AR pistol and at that time the general consensus among builders was to use a pistol buffer tube. A pistol buffer tube ("receiver extension") has a diameter that will not allow an AR15 butt stock to fit over it. Using a standard rifle or carbine receiver extension, which would allow the installation of a butt stock even if you didn't have one on it, was considered a good way get in trouble. I don't know if anyone ever did get in trouble that way but I played it safe.

Yep, it was the stock tube wrapped with para cord , then tubes with notches de milled, raw round tubes, round tubes with foam cover. Then came those fixed wrist “braces” that you could actual shoulder and then collapsible braces that look like normal stocks. The arm braces have become a discrete targeted item themselves.

 

[457ciSBC]

What I’ve always found difficult to understand is why is a 16” rifle not “taxed” and a 15 7/8” barrel rifle is.......stupid laws designed to raise revenue. One is no more lethal than the other.

Like the “Shockwave“ firearm....LOL. Before the Shockwave there was the birds head conversion kit for pistol grip shotguns. But take the same kit and convert your full M 500 without the form and you could go to jail.However, the tangible foot print is exactly the same, just makes you scratch your head........

 

[dakor]

I’m not surprised, when you push the envelope it had to happen. Modern AR pistols are nothing like models from 10-12 years ago. When “braces” started to appear looking like collapsible stocks, it was just a matter of time, with builds plastered all over YouTube, Reddit, Pinterest. Then you have the dummies that don’t take the time to read the rules and post illegal builds or write the technical branch asking silly questions, further raising eyebrows. Then someone starts to sell “plugs” that fit into the rear of the braces, It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out it’s an NFA work around, many builds have no tangible differences from an actual SBR, victims of their own success.

Grabbed from the web, 3 pistols, 2 SBR’s.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Where does that say regulate as you see fit. Create a NFA and put certain items you dont like in it so its harder to get. Put a special tax on those items.

What if we put a special tax on religions or certain words how would that pan out?

The whole NFA and ATF are violations of the 2nd It never should have passed into law and their should be no ATF. That would help keep guns out of the Cartels hands.

 

[Twicepop]

Again, and this is part of the problem.. As I understood it, it use to be that an ar with less than a 16" barrel had to be on a lower that is specifically marked by the mfg as a "pistol". My understanding is that they dropped that requirement. For starters, they should not be able to declare something as legal, then go back and declare it illegal...PERIOD! Second, is... this is just my understanding...This should NOT be complicated, but apparently, it is.

All that said, I don't see my first issue addressed anywhere. If the mods are now again illegal on a rifle lower, how about on a legally mfg'd pistol lower?

Again...maybe it's just too complicated. I really don't care about the brace but this seems to encompass more than just a brace and retroactively outlaws guns that they previously approved as legal.

I don't remember most of the details anymore, but when Barry Soetoro was masquerading as leader of the free world he tried to make something illegal that had previously been legal. It was decided among legal scholars this would be classified as bill of attainder and fall under the exo facto clause in the Constitution. Meaning if it was legal once, it is not allowable to declare it illegal because someone just decides it's dangerous or deems it socially unacceptable. Is there a lawyer among the readers/members that can clarify?

 

[Trashy]

They're not illegal, just undocumented.

 

[sparky123321]

They're not illegal, just undocumented.

That's perfect! Does this mean my AR pistol can get free housing, cell phone, school lunches, etc, etc, etc.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

I don't have any braced pistols, and I'm against any changes especially considering how they're implementing them, but I really question how much this changes things in "the real world".

I've never met an LEO who really knew much about the NFA, and more specifically SBRs. I've also never seen a case where someone was arrested strictly because they possessed an SBR (i.e. folks get charged with it, but it's usually just an add-on to more serious charges).

From my perspective, NFA laws are already pretty unenforceable. I've been stopped with suppressors before; never asked to produce any tax paperwork. Even if I were asked, I strongly doubt most low-level LEOs would even know what they're looking at.

How would that even get verified via (state/local) law enforcement during your average traffic stop?

If anything, I bet this results in a lot of shooters telling on each other, more than it does law enforcement actually discovering 'illegal' SBRs.

Edit: I type all that and it actually occurred to me that I know somebody (we're not close lol) who got hit with NFA-related charges; they were tacked on to ensure maximum jailtime, and unrelated to what really got them into trouble.

 

[Conaso]

I wonder how many crimes have been committed by someone using an AR15 short-barrel with a brace? It does not seem a weapon of convenience or concealable.

 

[wbm]

Having grown up in the mountains of western North Carolina I can say the damn revenuers are not your friends. Never have been. They will have your firearms if they can. The tree of liberty is in a drought.

 

[oldman1951]

Just the tip of the iceberg headed toward us.

Any gun owner who voted for biden should be proud.

no, they need to be DISARMED!

 

[300_whisper]

What’s the link to complain to the ATF?

 

[wbm]

My advice. Don't. You may get on a list. Stay as anonymous to those carpetbagging feds as you can!
Over the past three years two of my friends gun shops have been broken into. In one they also went to his home and beat him almost to death trying to get in the big safe at the shop. In both cases ATF acted as if the owners were somehow in part at fault and suspect....I am not exaggerating even a little!

 

[gme]

so, more than likely this being ex post facto regulation it will be challenged in court, also, having a number of LEO friends and customers I can say they have no interest in enforcing ATF regulations, the LEO's I speak with tend to detest this kind of crap.

 

[Louisiana Shooter]

The trajectory of all of these regulations is towards Marxism and confiscation. Just how far does it have to go before we ALL FIGHT BACK AS ONE, united in the cause to maintain our freedom at all costs? I mean, how is it that over 100 MILLION gun owners are just going to roll over a let the Marxists take every gun from all gun owners? Take away everything this country was founded upon?

Even on THIS forum many still believe the government regime that appears to be coming into power at this time is going to let them keep their guns and just leave them alone. They can go back to shooting their little paper targets and be left alone. The ones coming into power plan on taxing guns, ammo and components OUT OF EXISTENCE........They have not nor appear to even think about preparing for what seems inevitable to many people. A Civil War coming..........Or, do you think all these guns that are being bought and all this ammo and supplies are being bought is JUST TO GIVE IT TO THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THEY SAY YOU HAVE TOO??? Get real.

The largest militia group in this nation at this time sent a very long open letter President Trump that when summed up goes like this:

"There is a Civil War coming very, very soon, and we want you to be President when it happens so it will go easier for us. But if you're not our President it still going to happen."

"We are asking that you use the military to seize all voting machines and do a deep forensic audit to see how this election really played out and if there were violations to the voting laws send those that are guilty to prison. Punish any country that was in on it as well as expose all the back door deals going on in Washington DC on both sides of the isle."

This particular militia group isn't your "back woods hillbilly rebel flag rednecks" either. These guys are the real deal. I would suggest getting ready for this. If it doesn't happen and things do return to normal then you will have plenty of stuff to play with afterwards. BUT, if it does go down in a civil war and you're NOT prepared...............no one should have to tell you how that will end.

Just think about it please.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The trajectory of all of these regulations is towards Marxism and confiscation. Just how far does it have to go before we ALL FIGHT BACK AS ONE, united in the cause to maintain our freedom at all costs? I mean, how is it that over 100 MILLION gun owners are just going to roll over a let the Marxists take every gun from all gun owners? Take away everything this country was founded upon?

Even on THIS forum many still believe the government regime that appears to be coming into power at this time is going to let them keep their guns and just leave them alone. They can go back to shooting their little paper targets and be left alone. The ones coming into power plan on taxing guns, ammo and components OUT OF EXISTENCE........They have not nor appear to even think about preparing for what seems inevitable to many people. A Civil War coming..........Or, do you think all these guns that are being bought and all this ammo and supplies are being bought is JUST TO GIVE IT TO THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THEY SAY YOU HAVE TOO??? Get real.

The largest militia group in this nation at this time sent a very long open letter President Trump that when summed up goes like this:

"There is a Civil War coming very, very soon, and we want you to be President when it happens so it will go easier for us. But if you're not our President it still going to happen."

"We are asking that you use the military to seize all voting machines and do a deep forensic audit to see how this election really played out and if there were violations to the voting laws send those that are guilty to prison. Punish any country that was in on it as well as expose all the back door deals going on in Washington DC on both sides of the isle."

This particular militia group isn't your "back woods hillbilly rebel flag rednecks" either. These guys are the real deal. I would suggest getting ready for this. If it doesn't happen and things do return to normal then you will have plenty of stuff to play with afterwards. BUT, if it does go down in a civil war and you're NOT prepared...............no one should have to tell you how that will end.

Just think about it please.

How does one find out more info? Asking for a friend

 

[Cecil S.]

^^^^^^^+1

 

[Louisiana Shooter]

How does one find out more info? Asking for a friend

https://oathkeepers.org and https://www.thethreepercenters.org are 2 of the largest in the nation right now.

Oath Keepers is the organization that published the letter to Trump.

https://oathkeepers.org/2020/12/ope...on-act-to-stop-the-steal-and-defeat-the-coup/

I have not yet officially joined, but if things continue as they are during the next month............I will certainly join. Both organizations are somewhat tied together. They cooperate with each other to a degree as I understand it.

 

[Oso]

Good News - Just saw a notice that ATF has cancelled/recalled their policy review of Pistol Braces. This proposal is no longer an open item...dead in the water.

 

[AccelR8]

Good News - Just saw a notice that ATF has cancelled/recalled their policy review of Pistol Braces. This proposal is no longer an open item...dead in the water.

I'll copy my reply on this topic on another thread:


Yay!

Or, how about this; they were thinking about placing the guns in question under the NFA. This would in effect enter them into a different class of firearm, separate from your average everyday guns which they like to call assault weapons.

If the democrats fancy regulating a broader class of guns including but not limited to brace equipped pistols, it would be easier to do so with a single executive order or piece of legislation (depending on whether they gain control of the Senate or not). So maybe the incoming administration told them “Hold up, we got a better plan to implement.”

Don't relax on this one. Eternal vigilance.