Aside From The Price, What Are The Negatives Of The March Genesis 10x60x56 ELR Scope

[moondog]

I think you'll be allright with just about any scope you want to run Jackie. 1760 with mine is 44 MOA. 2000 is 55 MOA. I'm at 5000 ft so a bit less than sea level. I'm running a 7x35 ATCAR. But I would think anything with 80 MOA elevation and a 30 or 40 MOA Rail will give you all you need for the effective range of your rig.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I think you'll be allright with just about any scope you want to run Jackie. 1760 with mine is 44 MOA. 2000 is 55 MOA. I'm at 5000 ft so a bit less than sea level. I'm running a 7x35 ATCAR. But I would think anything with 80 MOA elevation and a 30 or 40 MOA Rail will give you all you need for the effective range of your rig.

Are you using 1st or 2d focal plane.
To be honest, I have never owned a 1st Focal Plane Scope. I do understand the advantage of 1st at longer distances.

 

[SKWERLZ]

What’s an optical offset?

Tacom HQ DELTA TARAC - Solids Solution Designs

Eliminate interference from brakes, and thermal mirage using the Delta. Shift your scope’s line of sight from over your barrel to its side.

www.solidsolutiondesigns.com

 

[SKWERLZ]

I think you'll be allright with just about any scope you want to run Jackie. 1760 with mine is 44 MOA. 2000 is 55 MOA. I'm at 5000 ft so a bit less than sea level. I'm running a 7x35 ATCAR. But I would think anything with 80 MOA elevation and a 30 or 40 MOA Rail will give you all you need for the effective range of your rig.

I run a scope with about 100 moa total elevation on a 40moa rail and can easily dial to 2k with my 7mm or 338.
80 moa on a 30 moa rail should work well also and easily get a bit past a mile.
Spring is near and looking forward to some LR shooting.

 

[moondog]

Are you using 1st or 2d focal plane.
To be honest, I have never owned a 1st Focal Plane Scope. I do understand the advantage of 1st at longer distances.

I'm using a 1st focal plane. The only advantage is the graduations stay the same through out the magnification range. Helpful if I'm on the clock with wind holds and my ballistics.
I went to public school, I'm not real good at math. The Reticle can be a bit thick at higher magnification though. If you have a scope that deals with the Mirage, that's a big bonus. It can be horrible way out there.
You'll be fine with what you have as long as you can get 60 or so minutes of elevation.
I trying to save you $4000.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I'm using a 1st focal plane. The only advantage is the graduations stay the same through out the magnification range. Helpful if I'm on the clock with wind holds and my ballistics.
I went to public school, I'm not real good at math. The Reticle can be a bit thick at higher magnification though. If you have a scope that deals with the Mirage, that's a big bonus. It can be horrible way out there.
You'll be fine with what you have as long as you can get 60 or so minutes of elevation.
I trying to save you $4000.

Good point. The Night Force you are using looks pretty good.
I have a 30 degree rail coming from Bat for the Bat M Action.

 

[jackieschmidt]

This past week end at New Braunfels, I had a chance to speak with a very well known shooter about just how the March Genisis was constructed.
He was not complimentary.
He described the inner workings of the mount as working on the same principle as the old Unertles, with some of the same problems in the initial offerings.

I did not think it was built like that.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I don't know how the Unertls riflescopes were built. The Genesis riflescope use a proprietary, patented dual gimbal system that was designed and created by DEON's Shimizu Fumio. I seriously doubt that's anywhere close to Unertl.

At any rate, if you are shying away from the Genesis and want a more conventional design, I would suggest you look at the new March-FX 5-42X56 Gen 2 riflescope. It has the same mirage-resistant glass as the Genesis and the well-known March-X 10-60X56 High Master. The Majesta uses the same glass also, and has some more pixie dust inside.
The 5-42X56 Gen 2 if an FFP design with the following specs. It's a wide-angle eyepiece scope with a 26° AOV, it has 40 MIL of elevation adjustment in 10MIL/rev Shuriken turrets. 14MIL for windage adjustment.

The Atacr 7-35X56 mentioned earlier has 29MIL of elevation travel. I'm having a hard time finding the FOV values for it on their website, but I believe the AOV for that riflescope is 22.7°, which is much smaller than the 26° of the March. I would think that field of view (FOV) is important in ELR shooting and the March 5-42X56 Gen 2 has it in spades.

There is also a special model designed for PRS competition, with writable turrets and a new reticle, the FML-WBR. If ever you get to TGC, I could show it to you.

 

[Fast14riot]

What’s an optical offset?

Think optical periscope in front of your optic.

Look up Charlie TARAC from TacomHQ.

 

[ELR LVR]

I think I found the one I was talking about. Moab Cold shot adj from 150 to 300 Moa.

M.O.A.B. - 150/300 Minutes of Angle Adjustable Scope Base - Cold Shot - SHOT Show 2017

The M.O.A.B. is a 1/4 MOA click adjustable tilting scope base, which allows you to use the middle of your optics glass at long range. So rather than click your scope out 40 or more MOA when you stretch from 100 to 1000 yards, you click the base out, and make only minor adjustments to your scope...

gunsamerica.com

https://heritage-arms.com/product-category/gun-parts/cold-shot-llc-adjustable-scope-bases/

View attachment 1637840
View attachment 1637832

This is what I use for ELR
Very nice setup, I use the MRAB in Mils and it allows for .05 mil adjustments which is a bonus.
One aspect the maker made a You tube vid on is.... one mistake every single user was making and he sounded pissed in his video.
Like "are you really all a bunch of a DumbA#@ you cant read instructions!??
What did I even go and design the thing for then???" type of pissed.
And then was like "Here, let me show you how it ACTUALLY works"
There is a lockout allen screw in the top rear of the unit that people were using as a STOP screw by bottoming it out against the turn wheel.
Well doing that to the turn wheel cants the whole wheel and throws it off in an unreliable manner.
Not to mention distorts the wheels axis.
When instead for proper use....there are cutouts every 1/4 turn for the screw to "Perfectly" fit into.
This is how it actually was designed to prevent the wheel from turning if wanted.
If not just leave the screw backed out and one can adjust up and down like a scope.
This lockout feature prevents the user from accidentally bumping the adjustment wheel.
(The detent is not very heavy like a Tactical Scope might be)
Bumping its adjustment is something very easy to do just by working the bolt or it moving around in the gun case.
---------------
By bottoming the screw against the turn wheel many people were complaining of it being unreliable in its adjustments and sending it back and asking for refunds etc.
(Which at over $500 bucks a pop, can be quite frustrating for business when in every single circumstance it was user error.)
So then the maker had to go and then make a Youtube Vid to Enlighten every single user how that screw is designed to be used and how everyone was almost damaging the unit.
--------------
The unit is very reliable and solid and has PLENTY of adjustent farther than most shooters would even be able to see a target.
I shoot over a mile and don't even have to use it.
a 30 MOA(not degree) base is plenty for me.
Im actually thinking of taking it back off because it puts the scope height so high
it is nice to have though just in case.
---------------
I use First Focal because I need to range with my reticle
(IE: 2 Mils = a man height at 1000 yds)
So therefore the reticle correlates at any power magnification setting with the reticle enlarging linearly as power increases.
then I can use my reticle at any magnification setting I want... instead of being bound to only one setting,
since with a SFP only being calibrated at one magnification which is usually too low (10-12x) with most scope makers.
Most of us need at least 15x at 1760 and beyond.
The 2nd bonus feature of having your reticle size correlate correctly with power setting is
you can also use your reticle to measure how far you missed by.
If you have 0.2 mils subtensions then if you miss by one hashmark, you know that was approx 1 foot.
12-5/8"
at ANY power setting you choose to use.

 

[SKWERLZ]

This past week end at New Braunfels, I had a chance to speak with a very well known shooter about just how the March Genisis was constructed.
He was not complimentary.
He described the inner workings of the mount as working on the same principle as the old Unertles, with some of the same problems in the initial offerings.

I did not think it was built like that.

Interesting

Out of curiosity how much inclination is on the rail of your action now?

 

[jackieschmidt]

I have a 30 degree and also a zero. The zero is for when I tune the rifle in at 200 yards and able to get it on paper. If and when I get a chance to take it out to ELR distances, I will take the zero off and put the 30 on.
Both are Bat Rails for the Bat M action.

As for the Genesis mount, I purposely did not say who I talked to, but suffice to say everybody knows him.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Yeah, about that. This is an example of the difference between knowing and guessing. I have spoken at length with the designer and patent holder for the twin gimbal mechanism used in the Genesis, so I'm not guessing.

 

[R.Morehouse]

www.brownells.com › adjustable-inclination-mountERATAC ADJUSTABLE INCLINATION MOUNT - Brownells
I have an extra one of these here. I picked up 2 from a shooter a while back and only need one. It is 34mm 0-70moa ELR adjustable mount. It has been rock solid on my 338 Lapua imp....My scope is the Vortex Gen 3 Razor.

I have a 30 degree and also a zero. The zero is for when I tune the rifle in at 200 yards and able to get it on paper. If and when I get a chance to take it out to ELR distances, I will take the zero off and put the 30 on.
Both are Bat Rails for the Bat M action.

As for the Genesis mount, I purposely did not say who I talked to, but suffice to say everybody knows him.

Regards
Rick

 

[boltfluter]

This is what I use for ELR
Very nice setup, I use the MRAB in Mils and it allows for .05 mil adjustments which is a bonus.
One aspect the maker made a You tube vid on is.... one mistake every single user was making and he sounded pissed in his video.
Like "are you really all a bunch of a DumbA#@ you cant read instructions!??
What did I even go and design the thing for then???" type of pissed.
And then was like "Here, let me show you how it ACTUALLY works"
There is a lockout allen screw in the top rear of the unit that people were using as a STOP screw by bottoming it out against the turn wheel.
Well doing that to the turn wheel cants the whole wheel and throws it off in an unreliable manner.
Not to mention distorts the wheels axis.
When instead for proper use....there are cutouts every 1/4 turn for the screw to "Perfectly" fit into.
This is how it actually was designed to prevent the wheel from turning if wanted.
If not just leave the screw backed out and one can adjust up and down like a scope.
This lockout feature prevents the user from accidentally bumping the adjustment wheel.
(The detent is not very heavy like a Tactical Scope might be)
Bumping its adjustment is something very easy to do just by working the bolt or it moving around in the gun case.
---------------
By bottoming the screw against the turn wheel many people were complaining of it being unreliable in its adjustments and sending it back and asking for refunds etc.
(Which at over $500 bucks a pop, can be quite frustrating for business when in every single circumstance it was user error.)
So then the maker had to go and then make a Youtube Vid to Enlighten every single user how that screw is designed to be used and how everyone was almost damaging the unit.
--------------
The unit is very reliable and solid and has PLENTY of adjustent farther than most shooters would even be able to see a target.
I shoot over a mile and don't even have to use it.
a 30 MOA(not degree) base is plenty for me.
Im actually thinking of taking it back off because it puts the scope height so high
it is nice to have though just in case.
---------------
I use First Focal because I need to range with my reticle
(IE: 2 Mils = a man height at 1000 yds)
So therefore the reticle correlates at any power magnification setting with the reticle enlarging linearly as power increases.
then I can use my reticle at any magnification setting I want... instead of being bound to only one setting,
since with a SFP only being calibrated at one magnification which is usually too low (10-12x) with most scope makers.
Most of us need at least 15x at 1760 and beyond.
The 2nd bonus feature of having your reticle size correlate correctly with power setting is
you can also use your reticle to measure how far you missed by.
If you have 0.2 mils subtensions then if you miss by one hashmark, you know that was approx 1 foot.
12-5/8"
at ANY power setting you choose to use.

Sounds like some better instructions were in order. Lol. More so, than a user problem.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Yeah, about that. This is an example of the difference between knowing and guessing. I have spoken at length with the designer and patent holder for the twin gimbal mechanism used in the Genesis, so I'm not guessing.

I would love to see a schematic of the Genisis Mount.
By the way. I did not say I believed the shooter I mentioned, I just stated what he said.

 

[SKWERLZ]

 

[jackieschmidt]

I finally see the innards.
The pivot appears to al all encapsulating spericle joint in the center of the scope body. There is a spring cartridge on the rear left that loads the scope body directly against the adjustment abutments, and also one on the right hand side forward of the pivot to add extra loading.
The shooter I mentioned talking too obviously has never seen one apart, and made an assumption based on ignorance.
This looks like a well engineered system. The only thing that could go wrong is if that spherical pivot became compromised.
Heck, Euro has them on sale. I am almost tempted to buy one and take it apart

 

[Jarhead6870]

You don’t mention how far you’re shooting or what elevations you require but there are several options an available to you, some better than others in my opinion.

The March scope, the Ivey, the Era-Tacs and other systems that use an external mechanism to increase elevation also change your position on the gun; more specifically your cheek rest. Not to say it’s a deal breaker for some, but I prefer the Nightforce Prisim or the TARAC which add elevation through the use of prisms vs mechanical means thus not changing one’s position on the rifle.

I will add that the use of an Era-Tac does allow a shooter to come close to using their scope’s total usable travel by maximizing the amount of scope base they can use and still maintain a 100 yard zero.

I run a Vortex Gen 3 with a 60 MOA base, 30 MOA scope base and Era-Tac dialed to 30 MOA, and can zero at 100 yards and have 34 MILs of up elevation. If needing more, I thrown on a 30 MIL prism and can easily get out to 2 miles

Hope this helps…Semper Fi

 

[ELR LVR]

Sounds like some better instructions were in order. Lol. More so, than a user problem.

Could very well be true,
Sometimes when we ourselves as engineers design something
We tend to take it as common sense others will understand our concept the same way in their mind too.
But is not always the case.
-------------------------------------
Some don't even know how to use a metric crescent wrench properly