AR-10 in 308 sacrilege?
- Thread starter rap36case
- Start date
rap36case
Working up loads for new Shilen 308win
Thank you all for the responses. The Forums have never let me down on questions.
I don't have high expectations for an AR10 out of the box. I just want one that will get impacts on steel (1MOA) at 1000 yards. My custom bolt guns in 308 and 6.5CM do well out to 1500 yards. Have not tried at 1760 yards. I like NRL matches but, I'm not as young as I used to be LOL.
Since no one is shooting the Springfield AR10, I think I'm better off with a better one. I'll see what the shop recieves in the next few weeks, as the owner shoots out to 2000 yards and appreciates a good rifle.
I don't have high expectations for an AR10 out of the box. I just want one that will get impacts on steel (1MOA) at 1000 yards. My custom bolt guns in 308 and 6.5CM do well out to 1500 yards. Have not tried at 1760 yards. I like NRL matches but, I'm not as young as I used to be LOL.
Since no one is shooting the Springfield AR10, I think I'm better off with a better one. I'll see what the shop recieves in the next few weeks, as the owner shoots out to 2000 yards and appreciates a good rifle.
let's start with your requirement. 1 moa at 1000 yards.
IMHO that aint gonna happen with a 24" store bought ar10.
the mil spec for sniper rifles( not over the counter retail) is 1.1 moa at tested at either 300 or 600 yards.
shooting 175's is not even close for accuracy at 1000
most bolt guns going for 1 moa at 1k are 28-32" with 185 -200 gr bullets.
ya need to revise your expectations or move on.
my custom chambered krieger 24" plus suppressor will be done soon. i'll let you know how it does.
IMHO that aint gonna happen with a 24" store bought ar10.
the mil spec for sniper rifles( not over the counter retail) is 1.1 moa at tested at either 300 or 600 yards.
shooting 175's is not even close for accuracy at 1000
most bolt guns going for 1 moa at 1k are 28-32" with 185 -200 gr bullets.
ya need to revise your expectations or move on.
my custom chambered krieger 24" plus suppressor will be done soon. i'll let you know how it does.
rap36case
Working up loads for new Shilen 308win
I shoot 185g with Varget and small primers from my bolt gun, a Shilen built custom with 26inch barrel. I don't expect the same performance from any AR10, custom or not. I shoot at Fouled Bore Precision in Oklahoma, when I get the chance. I will ask Justin Watts at the range before I purchase an AR10. They may be fine carbines and you want a light weight for carbine range. I wouldn't seriously attempt an NRL match with an AR10 or any other where bolt guns dominate. I don't shoot competition at my age anyways.
I'll continue to study before making a decision. Seeing the rifles actually shooting at the range helps a lot.
I'll continue to study before making a decision. Seeing the rifles actually shooting at the range helps a lot.
You remind me of me about a month ago but rather than.308 the.243 looks a lot more
appealing with the right twist...
6mm.s have dominated the 1000 yd matches for a long time and the cartridge case is the same and offers a lot of options. I think they take the same mags too if I'm not mistaken.
Found one on gunbroker a couple weeks ago but held off. I'll prolly regret it.
appealing with the right twist...
6mm.s have dominated the 1000 yd matches for a long time and the cartridge case is the same and offers a lot of options. I think they take the same mags too if I'm not mistaken.
Found one on gunbroker a couple weeks ago but held off. I'll prolly regret it.
My AR-10 has a Fulton Armory 18" Stainless Match Barrel with a 1-12 twist. I shoot 168 gr match bullets out of Lapua cases. I am using the AR-Gold trigger group and a standard bolt carrier. Does great at 300, just ok at 600. I do not think the bullets are stable out to 1,000. The Chrono had them going 2770 at 10'.
If you already have a boltgun that works well, why not just do an ar15? It's handier and effective out to 600yds easy. Ar10s are pretty heavy and harder to tune but with a good barrel and 185 jugs, you can get to 1k just fine even out of a 20" barrel. As stated before, a good barrel with a matched bolt is about the most important. That and tuning the gas system and bolt.
168s are not a suitable 1k bullet. Made for 300m but work well a bit further.
OLD not so true comment.
the ORIGINAL sierra 168 was a 300 meter bullet, but the boat tail was redesigned and now does fine at 600..or more.
not as good as the 175
175 not as good as a 185..and on and on,
but in an ar10 with a 24" quality bbl and a suppressor and 175..i still think 800 is pushing it for REPEATABLE 1 moa accuracy.
i have shot any any 600 with an ar10 24" and berger 175's..i may actually know what i am talking about
the ORIGINAL sierra 168 was a 300 meter bullet, but the boat tail was redesigned and now does fine at 600..or more.
not as good as the 175
175 not as good as a 185..and on and on,
but in an ar10 with a 24" quality bbl and a suppressor and 175..i still think 800 is pushing it for REPEATABLE 1 moa accuracy.
i have shot any any 600 with an ar10 24" and berger 175's..i may actually know what i am talking about
Interesting. I'd heard the boat tail remained on the 168 due to various needs and the 169 is the released resolved solution.
I've got a few boxes of the early CMP 173 fmjs.and wow they shoot.
To extend my thoughts I'm in agreement that a different combination cartridge selection will provide potentially improved expectations at 1000y. 6mm/6.5/7mm in a case designed to hold higher BC bullets seem to perform better; however, it's still either a crap shoot or custom/custom tuning to get them running just right. I'm one of the lucky ones, my 6.5 creed loves 600+ and it'll outshoot my skills.
308 is a great.cartridge too, but you don't see benchresters shooting 185s for a reason.
My preference, is that a 10 platform is great out to 600 for a 1.5MOA and mag fed. Once you've reloaded for one you'll feel really silly hand feeding it neck turned brass and on-line seated loads. They respond well to precision, but is it worth it can only be answered by the person on the learning experience.
It's still not a 1000 yard bullet.
AR10, I have both in 6.5 creed and 308....depends on what you want. I still am a 308 fan, had 8 308s compared to 2 6.5 creedmoors.
The last 18" AR 10 308 running 200 gr SMK .715 BC at 2673 fps almost 3200 ft/lbs of muzzle energy...but it really needs a 9 twist barrel for long range as stated by Sierra to maintain ballistics proficiency. But in lean times a 308 will shoot anything pretty good, junk ammo, found ammo, military ammo, steel case, fmj, tracers, armor piercing, anything on the battlefield. Found in any store that sells ammo...and most powders from fairly fast to slow will work in the 308. The survivors caliber along with the 5.56, and it will shoot as far accurately as a the average person can hit accurately...the Australian long range shooting couple made hits on steel at 3100 yds with a box stock .308 Win Remington police 700 barreled action in an aluminum chasis. I'm sure they could do the same with the 6.5 Creedmoor. I've used the most inefficient .308 bullet I had a 130 grain Speer open tip hollow point at low speed of 2650 fps in 308 Win as an experiment and was able to make consecutive hits on a milk jug at 1000 yds. 60 MOA to get there, and subsonic around 700 to 750 yards, the bullets weren't going sidways or doing strange thing dropping out of the sound barrier...it just took awhile for them to get there. If your not into competition and actually have an area to shoot at 1000 yds any reasonable caliber will get the job done....even the 5.56! ...20 shots, 20 inch circle, in 20 seconds! Accomplished!.. by the AR 15 5.56. Just shoot it...its cheap and it works, which allows more practice time.
The last 18" AR 10 308 running 200 gr SMK .715 BC at 2673 fps almost 3200 ft/lbs of muzzle energy...but it really needs a 9 twist barrel for long range as stated by Sierra to maintain ballistics proficiency. But in lean times a 308 will shoot anything pretty good, junk ammo, found ammo, military ammo, steel case, fmj, tracers, armor piercing, anything on the battlefield. Found in any store that sells ammo...and most powders from fairly fast to slow will work in the 308. The survivors caliber along with the 5.56, and it will shoot as far accurately as a the average person can hit accurately...the Australian long range shooting couple made hits on steel at 3100 yds with a box stock .308 Win Remington police 700 barreled action in an aluminum chasis. I'm sure they could do the same with the 6.5 Creedmoor. I've used the most inefficient .308 bullet I had a 130 grain Speer open tip hollow point at low speed of 2650 fps in 308 Win as an experiment and was able to make consecutive hits on a milk jug at 1000 yds. 60 MOA to get there, and subsonic around 700 to 750 yards, the bullets weren't going sidways or doing strange thing dropping out of the sound barrier...it just took awhile for them to get there. If your not into competition and actually have an area to shoot at 1000 yds any reasonable caliber will get the job done....even the 5.56! ...20 shots, 20 inch circle, in 20 seconds! Accomplished!.. by the AR 15 5.56. Just shoot it...its cheap and it works, which allows more practice time.
You will pay a lot more money for a factory gun than the same quality gun you build. Building rifles gives you a ton of choices and performance options that you wouldn't have from a factory gun. And building a gun on ar10 and 15 platforms is really easy. Let me know if you would like some parts recommendations.
It's a factory rifle.... sometimes they shoot great out of the box, sometimes they're OK, sometimes it's not very good. I still have one of the DPMS LR308's that came with the 24" bull barrel. It shoots about .75 moa with factory ammo, the only modification was the trigger. It was terrible from the factory. A range member has a Rock River 308 that also is factory and shoots very good. I have seen an Aero Precision that was very good. And it's just my opinion...... if a factory ar shoot a minute or under, that's a very good rifle.
Good luck!
Good luck!
I assume you did load development and it's a free floated barrel. Is it Aero's barrel? One moa may be all it has. I can't remember who makes their barrels but there are better ones out there (though theirs are not cheap either).
With a good trigger, barrel and bolt, most of the other stuff on ARs is inconsequential. If the front of the receiver is not square and if the barrel extension is sloppy in the receiver it can have an effect. Check barrel nut torque. Was the bolt matched to the barrel for headspace by Aero?
It was a complete upper from aero. So far I've just put factory ammo through it. I'm hoping with some load development and maybe a tuner I can tighten it up some.
Oh, in that case I would call one moa out of has gun with factory ammo pretty good. I would consider a bullet in the 120-130 gr range and see what you get. I'm sure you can do better handloading
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