Any states finding F-Class too popular?

[effendude]

With the growing popularity of F-Class, are any other states faced with an active "anti F-Class" contingent actually working against the sport? Here in Minnesota, we have gone from a few shooters to numbers that far outnumber most range's capacity to have combined matches.

OTC and sling shooting is in serious decline here, yet F-Class is subjected to second class status. All the while, we have been called names, had our sport sneered at and we have been treated like second class citizens. At times, no awards at matches, even Regionals. No effort is made to learn even the simplest distinctions between Open and TR classes. I am curious what shooters in other states have experienced.
Scott

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

We get called F'ers. By the slingers. I actually think that's funny. We also dish it out about how tiring it is reaching across that big target that the slingers shoot on. It's all good. lol

Shoot what you like, Don't let anybody get you down.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

We see some individuals out west that really try to not help the sport grow. The result is a real decline in attendance of f/tr shooters. It has been rare to have more than two of us show up for local matches. Even regionals have sad turnouts.

That is why I'm moving to open. We get lumped in with open anyway, might as well shoot some fun calibers.

I'm hoping that ammunition and component availability will improve, and thus attendance. My mid-range tr has really come together this year and I'd like to really compete in my class.

Either way, we all need to encourage new shooters and help them grow. The quicker they become truly competitive, the more likely they are to come out and shoot.

 

[treeman]

sling shooters a just jealous because if they shot on the f-class target they would not score as well. at our club f-class is the only reason we have prone matches and our sling shooters seem to respect the scores shot on the smaller target especially when it's a 200-15-x's

 

[bigbore]

Interesting, the same applies here in Australia.

F Class shooters are keeping many of our ranges open but the TR shooters get the glory. I am sure it will progress well for us though.
One club called us F Troop. Quite funny really.

See some of you guys in Raton?

Cam

 

[ShootDots]

I belong to "Bayou Rifles" just outside of Houston, Texas.. Our club is primarily a "prone-shooting" club of all disciplines... We have grown so fast in the past few years that we are now limiting our membership... I have a great time there no matter who I am yakkin' with.. We have a "decent" split between all types of "sling-shooters" and the F-Open / F-T/R concepts. I also frequent the "High-Power" (F-Open / Sling / F-T/R) at the "Golder Triangle" club in Beaumont, Texas... We all get along just fine... I have not experienced any animosity between the disciplines.. Just my observation(s)...

 

[Immike]

With the growing popularity of F-Class, are any other states faced with an active "anti F-Class" contingent actually working against the sport? Here in Minnesota, we have gone from a few shooters to numbers that far outnumber most range's capacity to have combined matches.

OTC and sling shooting is in serious decline here, yet F-Class is subjected to second class status. All the while, we have been called names, had our sport sneered at and we have been treated like second class citizens. At times, no awards at matches, even Regionals. No effort is made to learn even the simplest distinctions between Open and TR classes. I am curious what shooters in other states have experienced.
Scott

When we first shared the firing line with our highpower shooters it took a few matches to get used to each other. We where already operating a match independent of them and didn't try to invade their match. One day I was waiting for them to finish up a practice so I could set up a match for the next day and got to talk to them. I had just built a new trailer for carrying people to the pit and told them that they were welcome to use it. The match director Larry Ailor came to the pit with me to help me hang targets and we had a good talk about combining our efforts. We all get along great now that we have shot together for a few years and share equipment on a regular basis. I guess it's a matter of getting started on the right foot.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

In Arizona, Rick Curtis of Desert Sharp Shooters is a sling shooter and is the biggest supporter of shooting sports and especially F Class. We are even shooting Smallbore F Class now and this year he has set up practices for the people going to the F Class Nationals and Worlds at the only Phx 1000 yard line.

Thanks Again Rick!!!

 

[mysticplayer]

In Canada, we have had a slight head start in the F game and have run into these problems earlier then most. Yes, there are rivalries but for the most part, we work together to get the matches going. Really a question of survival as long distance ranges are limited and if we don't manage ourselves properly, no one gets to play.

The key is to organise together as needed. Give and take with a big dose of compromise. Many clubs have decades of structure around the TR format and these shooters have a hard time changing but change they must, otherwise, we all loose.

When F'ers get to a number where they can run their own matches.... RUN YOUR OWN MATCHES.

As long as shooters are willing to put in the work to make an event happen, conflicts should be minimal.

YMMV.

Jerry

 

[effendude]

I won't get into all the drama, but in 7 years of shooting along sidethe sling guys, I thought it would have gotten better. Funny thing is I started out as a sling guy and was asked to help start F-Class in the state. Most of these guys were what I considered friends. It seems as their true character is coming out.

This year, we had our F-Class MR state championship as a stand alone event. 50 shooters attended which would have overwhelmed every other range in the state. We had about 20-30 active shooters who didn't compete! A sling match generates 15-20 shooters at the most. It is not meant to be a contest between disciplines, but many shooters are openly against F-Class. Unfortunately, with declining match participation, many ranges are struggling financially as a result.

The state's LR matches are a perfect example. We shoot side by side, but most of the sling guys won't even acknowledge the F-class guys, let alone talk to them. Many get up and leave before the F-class awards ceremony. It reminds me of a junior high dance, boys on one side of the gym and girls on the other.

Scott

 

[XTR]

sling shooters a just jealous because if they shot on the f-class target they would not score as well.

Don't start that. It's BS to compare the two disciplines and your writing or saying crap like that adds to the friction.

For long range I'm a pure F-TR shooter; and while I do want to play with service rifle I have zero desire to ever compete or try my hand at long range sling. Just getting that on the table.

Last week I was practicing with some of the other shooters at ORSA. One of the sling guys who shoots HM asked if he could get behind my rifle and shoot a few. I am trying to get a bunch of once fired cases for Raton so I said sure.

Was a great evening for shooting, I finally got a no wind zero. Randy got behind my rifle and proceeded to put about 9 out of 10 in the 10 ring and about 5 of those in the X ring.

I'll guarandamntee that an F class shooter (like me) that doesn't shoot sling can't do that on a sling target. Yes, High Master sling shooters clean sling targets pretty regularly, but look at what a beginning sling shooter does. It's a different game. Yes we share the same rule book and that we are able to shoot side by side because the formats are the same but artificial support and a 42x scope makes a difference and comparing sores or targets is just silly and only causes friction.

If the F class participation is that great in those clubs where they are meeting resistance maybe the shooters need to step up and get active, volunteer and run matches, get elected to club positions and make changes. I know that at my club I certainly don't have time to make the commitment to run matches. The guys that do that I thank every time and I'm appreciative of the efforts.


I'll give you a different way of thinking of that. If you've never competed in sling shooting at 1000 yards, would you put $100 on the table sling up and shoot with a Palma rifle against a Palma shooter shooting an F-TR rifle. Twenty shots for record each on the appropriate target for the rifle? I would not, I have no doubt that I would lose $100 that I need for reloading supplies.

 

[Immike]

Randy got behind my rifle and proceeded to put about 9 out of 10 in the 10 ring and about 5 of those in the X ring.


AH-HA, I saw that Randy!! You used a scope.

 

[XTR]

Randy got behind my rifle and proceeded to put about 9 out of 10 in the 10 ring and about 5 of those in the X ring.


AH-HA, I saw that Randy!! You used a scope.

The problem with that is now I'm obligated to actually do the to the theory to practice and sling up and shoot a Palma rifle. (I'm going to suck )

 

[RStewart]

We shoot sling/prone and F-Class side-by-side in our matches. Except for some good natured ribbing between the groups, we generally don't have any issues. We just filled our state match with 60 shooters and 14 will be Prone. There will be an award for winner in F-Open, FTR and Prone. And class winners in all 3 groups.

I started in service rifle, moved to prone and ended up in F-Class, so I have shot all 3. I take nothing away from any of the disciplines, as to achieve a HM ranking in any of them takes work and dedication. Yes, Prone shoot at a bigger target, but they also use open sights. It's not as easy as it looks!

We shoot our F-Class/ Prone matches on the 1st Saturday and the Service Rifle guys shoot theirs on the 3rd Saturday. So range usage is not a problem.

But, IMHO to have harmony within the groups the MD needs to make all feel welcome to the match.

 

[effendude]

We shoot sling/prone and F-Class side-by-side in our matches. Except for some good natured ribbing between the groups, we generally don't have any issues. We just filled our state match with 60 shooters and 14 will be Prone. There will be an award for winner in F-Open, FTR and Prone. And class winners in all 3 groups.

I started in service rifle, moved to prone and ended up in F-Class, so I have shot all 3. I take nothing away from any of the disciplines, as to achieve a HM ranking in any of them takes work and dedication. Yes, Prone shoot at a bigger target, but they also use open sights. It's not as easy as it looks!

We shoot our F-Class/ Prone matches on the 1st Saturday and the Service Rifle guys shoot theirs on the 3rd Saturday. So range usage is not a problem.

But, IMHO to have harmony within the groups the MD needs to make all feel welcome to the match.

I agree completely. Your history in the sport is the same as mine. While time prevents me from shooting with a sling, I still have about 8 rifles set up for it. I respect the disciplines and want them all to grow.

An example witnessed last year was at a regional for mrp and f-class. Only one medal for F-class, no distinction between disciplines, and yet about 10 medals on the sling side. Participation was equal. Worse yet was a pic of a shooter wearing an ape suit shooting a rifle with a bipod prominently displayed in the registration shack. The caption said "F class shooter". Not very welcoming....
Scott

 

[XTR]

I don't know if everyone else has had this happen but in the case where a regional gets only one medal for F class the MD needs to make a phone call. I think we can all agree that the competitive shooting branch of the NRA gets something less than a 4.0 eval. It seems that whoever is responsible for sending out the medals doesn't get that there are 2 classes, and if the MD is a sling shooter and doesn't pay attention or look into it you only get one medal. Happened to us at Oak Ridge at this yrs regional. We (F-TR) objected and the MD contacted the NRA. An email came out 24 about 24 hours later saying that the F-TR medals were getting mailed out.

As a TR shooter I'm more sensitive to being lumped in against the F-Open guys than anything I ever get from the HP guys. There are a lot of matches where I can outshoot some of the Open guys, but never the experienced ones. Shooting in a match with five F-TR shooters and one F-open shooter it's a little bothersome to see

-Winner-

next to the score of the guy shooting Open.

 

[280man]

The NRA screws up the medal deal all the way around. If you don't raise cane with them they will send 6 medals total. 2 of each. One set is labeled high power and one set Fclass. You tell me that a SR shooter should compete against a Palma rifle.

 

[XTR]

The NRA screws up the medal deal all the way around. If you don't raise cane with them they will send 6 medals total. 2 of each. One set is labeled high power and one set Fclass. You tell me that a SR shooter should compete against a Palma rifle.

I've wondered about that. As a wrote above I'm not happy when I get lumped in with the F-Open guys, and it got me to thinking once about Palma guys shooting against any/irons RSAUMs. Doesn't seem quite fair there either (thought I've seen more than one any/any match won by a Palma rifle with Irons.)

 

[RStewart]

I don't know if everyone else has had this happen but in the case where a regional gets only one medal for F class the MD needs to make a phone call. I think we can all agree that the competitive shooting branch of the NRA gets something less than a 4.0 eval. It seems that whoever is responsible for sending out the medals doesn't get that there are 2 classes, and if the MD is a sling shooter and doesn't pay attention or look into it you only get one medal. Happened to us at Oak Ridge at this yrs regional. We (F-TR) objected and the MD contacted the NRA. An email came out 24 about 24 hours later saying that the F-TR medals were getting mailed out.

As a TR shooter I'm more sensitive to being lumped in against the F-Open guys than anything I ever get from the HP guys. There are a lot of matches where I can outshoot some of the Open guys, but never the experienced ones. Shooting in a match with five F-TR shooters and one F-open shooter it's a little bothersome to see

-Winner-

next to the score of the guy shooting Open.

The Open guys don't give the TR guys any grief here because I threaten to take those cappuccino machine front rests away and make them shoot with a bipod.

All kidding aside, the Open and TR folks get along well as we are seeing an increase in TR HM's, so both groups are pretty evenly matched. And we try to keep things on the light side. I believe we have at least 5 true FTR HM's shooting in the state match.

 

[RStewart]

The NRA screws up the medal deal all the way around. If you don't raise cane with them they will send 6 medals total. 2 of each. One set is labeled high power and one set Fclass. You tell me that a SR shooter should compete against a Palma rifle.

I've wondered about that. As a wrote above I'm not happy when I get lumped in with the F-Open guys, and it got me to thinking once about Palma guys shooting against any/irons RSAUMs. Doesn't seem quite fair there either (thought I've seen more than one any/any match won by a Palma rifle with Irons.)

Just a question- when the program is sent in to the NRA with the registration request we make sure to clearly show the different disciplines. So far, except for medals arriving just in the nick of time, we have not had a problem with the medals. Do other clubs clearly identify the groups in their program?

For our regional, they sent me too many medals. Had to send some back.