Any Of you Playing with Cast Bullets ?

[Cbashooter]

In a 1-17 twist 30BR, what would be a good load with cast bullets.

I have shot a lot of hard cast bullets in big handguns, never in a rifle.

There was a fellow over

In a 1-17 twist 30BR, what would be a good load with cast bullets.

I have shot a lot of hard cast bullets in big handguns, never in a rifle.

HL Yarbrough I think with the guy's name in our cast bullet association matches used a 17 twist and shooting A hard 150g cast bullet at quite high velocities and setting records. I can dig through the journals and get for you.

I have been shooting cast benchrest for the past 3 years. Every bullet I have fired has been powder coated. Conventional lubing is messy and it makes your gun messy. I shoot 30 caliber, I size the bullets to .310" I size before powder coat and again after powder coat. You can push a PC bullet a lot faster than grease lubed bullet with zero fear of leading. I use gas checks, so I size/crimp those on, coat, then size again.

I shoot either a 30BR or lately a 30PPC. I love the PPC version, but it has some challenges. I don't use pistol powder, H4198, H322, RL7 or RL10 all

I have been shooting cast benchrest for the past 3 years. Every bullet I have fired has been powder coated. Conventional lubing is messy and it makes your gun messy. I shoot 30 caliber, I size the bullets to .310" I size before powder coat and again after powder coat. You can push a PC bullet a lot faster than grease lubed bullet with zero fear of leading. I use gas checks, so I size/crimp those on, coat, then size again.

I shoot either a 30BR or lately a 30PPC. I love the PPC version, but it has some challenges. I don't use pistol powder, H4198, H322, RL7 or RL10 all will work.

Not sure on a 17" twist. We have 3-4 30br lead guns all built on 13" twist. Cast bullets are varying weights between 165gr-195gr. Best group on the reloading cabinet door is 0.164" 5 shoot with 165gr backed with some N135.

My whole family shoots in the Cast Bullet Association, and my Dad is the regional director for the south east. Cast shooting can be a lot of fun when it works, but it will drive you crazy.

To the OP, if you have a specific caliber you need help with feel free to shoot me a message and we'll see what we can come up with. In 30 cal we load 30-30, a 30-30 wildcat, 30br, a 7.62x39 wildcat, 30-06, 308, and we've played with some odd 308 based wildcats we inherited.

You are absolutely right about it driving you crazy at times. Nice to see another cba shooter.

 

[Sechrist2015]

Before I started shooting cast myself, I did quite a bit of gun work for cast shooters. Every barrel I pulled off had caked on grease on the breach of the barrel, and the locking lug area was caked with grease, some packed solid with only enough room for the bolt to rotate to battery. Just look at the muzzle of a grease gun, most have grease on them. Obviously, proper gun cleaning was not part of their shooting regimen.

Powder coating is no where near a copped clad bullet, and neither are equal to a jacketed bullet.

As our household has multiple high end custom cast guns, I can let you pull any barrel right now and you will find no "grease" in any action or on any breach face. "Messy" is due to a shooter not following their due diligence in their cleaning routine.

As for powder coating not being as good as a copper jacket, I'll agree to a point. Match results have shown that either the PC bullets are inconsistent or the shooter is inconsistent, I can't say for sure on a case by case basis. However PC bullets are equal on a durability standpoint; as if you take a PC bullet or a Jacketed bullet and set them on an anvil and beat the ever loving daylight's out of them with a 4lb hammer, the jacket and the PC both stay on the bullet.


Just my $0.02

 

[Wolfdog91]

Anyone else weight sort theirs or am I just e weirdo lol ?

 

[Sechrist2015]

View attachment 1316984
Anyone else weight sort theirs or am I just e weirdo lol ?

We weigh ours out to the dead tenth like that before gas check and lube. We don't use the powder coating on ours due to the inconsistency from lot to lot, but we still get the results.

 

[Sechrist2015]

Cast shooting can be a lot of fun, and the competition can be stiff. A lot of very well built rifles, but a lot of off the shelf rifles at matches too. It's a sport anyone can get into with a little help or a lot of research. I urge anyone who hasn't tried it to give it a shot. The gentleman that built my competition gun was an IBS shooter for quite a few years, and he swore that learning to shoot cast will make you a better jacketed shooter. Much more to compensate for when you're running 800+ fps slower with a big heavy bullet the wind likes to grab and throw around.

Side note: pics are of my "unrestricted pistol" and it's winnings at our national tournament last year.

 

[Cbashooter]

View attachment 1316984
Anyone else weight sort theirs or am I just e weirdo lol ?

Unless you separate cavities on multiple molds weight sorting is not accurate IMHO.
It's a hobby and if if gives you confidence it's worth it.
For me in 30 plus years of cast rifle shooting I've not seen a significant difference in accuracy by weighing bullets for sporting rifles.in Schuetzen benchrest rifles I use single cavity molds and try to shoot them in the order cast somewhat.I also index the bullet.even with that a bad day (me or the wind) Will make me wonder if I'm wasting time.

 

[BJung]

I recently started casting rifle bullets as an addition to pistol bullet casting. For my .30cal, I have a WW with additional 2% tin added. I've powder coated and categorized bullets by weight before gas checking them. So far, I've shot a 1" group at 50 yards with my rifle. I plan to repeat the same load but with the bullet tips filed so there is a meplate. Another test I'd like to conduct is take range lead that has been made into ingots and happen to have a high bhn ( probably has more hardcast alloy bullet material in it ). I'll water drop these after the PC, file a meplate, and remove the tempering on the bullet tip with a torch while the shank is in cold water. The ideal alloy for hunting is Lyman #2. I'll assume that if my bhn is the same as Lyman #2 that the performance will be close.

 

[Wolfdog91]

Unless you separate cavities on multiple molds weight sorting is not accurate IMHO.
It's a hobby and if if gives you confidence it's worth it.
For me in 30 plus years of cast rifle shooting I've not seen a significant difference in accuracy by weighing bullets for sporting rifles.in Schuetzen benchrest rifles I use single cavity molds and try to shoot them in the order cast somewhat.I also index the bullet.even with that a bad day (me or the wind) Will make me wonder if I'm wasting time.

Interesting. I'm shooting these out of a AR and seems once I stared weight sorting stuff got more consistent. Well I mean I went from 2-3"" groups @50 down to 1.5" but seemed noticeable to me.
But I have been told .22cal cast is alot finicker then anything so mabye that's it ?

 

[Wolfdog91]

Cast shooting can be a lot of fun, and the competition can be stiff. A lot of very well built rifles, but a lot of off the shelf rifles at matches too. It's a sport anyone can get into with a little help or a lot of research. I urge anyone who hasn't tried it to give it a shot. The gentleman that built my competition gun was an IBS shooter for quite a few years, and he swore that learning to shoot cast will make you a better jacketed shooter. Much more to compensate for when you're running 800+ fps slower with a big heavy bullet the wind likes to grab and throw around.

Side note: pics are of my "unrestricted pistol" and it's winnings at our national tournament last year.

Now that's a cool gun ! Curious does it count as a rail gun ?

 

[Sechrist2015]

Now that's a cool gun ! Curious does it count as a rail gun ?

Yes, it is a sleeved xp100 rail gun that qualifies for unrestricted pistol

 

[Cbashooter]

Interesting. I'm shooting these out of a AR and seems once I stared weight sorting stuff got more consistent. Well I mean I went from 2-3"" groups @50 down to 1.5" but seemed noticeable to me.
But I have been told .22cal cast is alot finicker then anything so mabye that'

Now that's a cool gun ! Curious does it count as a rail gun

Interesting. I'm shooting these out of a AR and seems once I stared weight sorting stuff got more consistent. Well I mean I went from 2-3"" groups @50 down to 1.5" but seemed noticeable to me.
But I have been told .22cal cast is alot finicker then anything so mabye that's it ?

I cast quite a few 22 caliber bullets and I don't weigh them and I find no trouble getting near a minute of angle at 100 yards in sporting rifles. The expert in this would be John Alexander of the CBA who has been competing with the 223 for 20 plus years. he does not weigh his bullets in fact he shoots bullet that have visual defects and they still shoot very well.
I wrote an article in the fouling shot about 15 years ago and in the 22-250 lightweight savage with cast I think my *average* for 100 five shot groups was 1.4" at 100 yards.no bullets weighed.

Maybe your weighing is segregation of cavities that have different dimensions?
I have some molds that cavities are quite different dimensionally

 

[MQ1]

Yeah me too since the 1970's almost always pistol bullets. The Rifle & cartridge I want to hunt with is 100+ year old 1894 Winchester 30WCF / the old 30-30. If it can be say under 2" groups at 70yds. & I can drive that bullet over 1800fps [not sure exactly] for proper expansion & penetration tests come next. mikeinct

That sounds like a very reasonable goal. Have you already chosen a bullet mold, and/or have you slugged the bore? I’ve had very good luck running .002-3 greater than the slug, even in Marlin’s microgroove rifling. A gas check will support a 50/50 wheel weight/ lead mix that should expand just fine, and not leave leading too bad, unless the bore looks like a bad road

I’m using a NOE 165 for the same basic purpose.

MQ1

 

[mikeinct]

MQ1 first off. love your avatar. reminds me of a cafe racer I had in the 1970's. [Got me in a lot of trouble that bike, grin grin] . Yes I have the bullet I want to hunt with & another just to plink with. I have not slugged any of these 30 caliber bores [No pure soft Pb to make slugs with] Even the pee wee Lee 113 does not drop from mold large enough for my taste. about .310 very round, the 163 RCBS is .309 - .310 That one shoots better go figure i all 4 rifles. Hey, is it possible I'm not letting these smaller bores get dirty enough ? I stop my testing at less than 20 shots each rifle. Take it Home. clean it, develop a new load, start over. mikeinct

 

[WayneShaw]

As our household has multiple high end custom cast guns, I can let you pull any barrel right now and you will find no "grease" in any action or on any breach face. "Messy" is due to a shooter not following their due diligence in their cleaning routine.

I agree 100%, IF they clean properly. Trouble is, many don't.

As for powder coating not being as good as a copper jacket, I'll agree to a point. Match results have shown that either the PC bullets are inconsistent or the shooter is inconsistent, I can't say for sure on a case by case basis.

My point being, PC bullets have so many pluses but compared to a jacketed bullet, the balance and stability of jacketed far out shoot a PC bullet for accuracy. The pure lead of bullet quality bullet cores, and jackets that have less than .0003" wall thickness difference gives them the accuracy.

I will say though, shooting PC bullets, I have never seen a barrel stay so clean. I clean after each target, solvent, bronze brush and patch out, and there is no carbon buildup, and of course there is no copper or lead fouling to deal with. Amazing.

 

[JSH]

If your in a pinch to slug a bore, a lead sinker can be put into service.

I swore I would never cast for anything smaller than 30 caliber. I ate my words a few years laters, 7mm,6.5 and 22. I saw guys mentioning casting for 17’s, I read all what they were doing, I slapped myself and came to my senses.
The .22’s I only shot in my Hornet. I had a model 40 Savage, it shot very very well. Opportunity to to swap for a CZ 527, that was a short term relationship. About three months, twist was wrong and bore size was of the old .223. I never got it to shot anything but the little short nubby Hornet labeled bullets. I swapped back for my little Savage and am happy with it.

As I mentioned I have not stayed on top of current CBA thoughts/rules on PCing. Majority of my cast shooting was in single shots. I have a half dozen or so milsurps that have not seen a jacketed bullet in at least 30 years, various designs and calibers. I dug a couple out and looked in the lug area of the action, not enough gunk to comment on. Actually what did come out was grease that swiped off of the back of the lugs when I would dab some grease there, it wasn’t bullet lube.

That in turn got me to thinking, my 1903 Remington and Finnish Nagant were my work horses. The 1903 had close to 10K through from my notes, the Finn was a bit over 4K. Neither were what I would call dirty or filthy.

I suspect what Mr Wayne had was someone using some type of tumble lube, and a lot of it.

From my findings and readings the lube goes in the grooves and serves little purpose to go any where else. We call it lube but in effect it is as much of a hydraulic seal as anything.

 

[WayneShaw]

I'm glad there are some cast shooters here. Where I shoot, the benchrest season starts next month!!!!

 

[MQ1]

MQ1 first off. love your avatar. reminds me of a cafe racer I had in the 1970's. [Got me in a lot of trouble that bike, grin grin] . Yes I have the bullet I want to hunt with & another just to plink with. I have not slugged any of these 30 caliber bores [No pure soft Pb to make slugs with] Even the pee wee Lee 113 does not drop from mold large enough for my taste. about .310 very round, the 163 RCBS is .309 - .310 That one shoots better go figure i all 4 rifles. Hey, is it possible I'm not letting these smaller bores get dirty enough ? I stop my testing at less than 20 shots each rifle. Take it Home. clean it, develop a new load, start over. mikeinctView attachment 1317048

I’ve been looking for a Lee soup can mold for some time, glad to see you have one.

PM me your address and I’ll send you some pure lead balls that I have left over from muzzleloading. I roll them under pressure on a hard, flat surface and size them to make a slug.

The alloy you choose to use will be an important factor in your accuracy and how well your bullet mushrooms. In my experience, 50/50 WW/Lead with a little tin added almost guarantees you a bullet that will “bump up” to size under a normal load. I’ve used that alloy for most all of my hunting boolits, and it performs well. If I need it a bit stiffer, I’ve used 16/1 monotype with good results too.

I don’t water drop the wheelweights unless I am looking to make heavy hard cast bullets, as the boolits do get harder (and more brittle) when water dropped. Depending on your plinking round goals, this may be desireable.

Let us know how this quest turns out!

MQ1

 

[Sechrist2015]

I agree 100%, IF they clean properly. Trouble is, many don't.



My point being, PC bullets have so many pluses but compared to a jacketed bullet, the balance and stability of jacketed far out shoot a PC bullet for accuracy. The pure lead of bullet quality bullet cores, and jackets that have less than .0003" wall thickness difference gives them the accuracy.

I will say though, shooting PC bullets, I have never seen a barrel stay so clean. I clean after each target, solvent, bronze brush and patch out, and there is no carbon buildup, and of course there is no copper or lead fouling to deal with. Amazing.

Lead fouling is only an issue when pushing velocity too hard without a suitable alloy. We run 2400fps average with 195gr bullet in my rail without the first hint of leading, however we run pure linotype.

It's just a matter of experience and asking the right people the right questions to make a plain old lead bullet shoot to it's full potential.

 

[mikeinct]

Thank You All for the Suggestions. I don't see even more than a tiny fleck of lead when cleaning . But I had asked. Am I shooting these barrels when they are still too clean ? Do I need more than seven shots from a clean barrel to have home rolled 30 caliber cartridges perform . ? The 375 & the 35 cal barrels settle right down w only one or two fouling shots .

 

[Sechrist2015]

Thank You All for the Suggestions. I don't see even more than a tiny fleck of lead when cleaning . But I had asked. Am I shooting these barrels when they are still too clean ? Do I need more than seven shots from a clean barrel to have home rolled 30 caliber cartridges perform . ? The 375 & the 35 cal barrels settle right down w only one or two fouling shots .

Really it changes from gun to gun. And with a 30 cal it may just not like the bullet you're using or the powder.