Any Of you Playing with Cast Bullets ?

[Drop Port]

In a 1-17 twist 30BR, what would be a good load with cast bullets.

I have shot a lot of hard cast bullets in big handguns, never in a rifle.

That's a good question, never heard of anyone trying that. If I was going to try it, I would probably start with an Acme 115 coated and some Trail Boss. (Research with caution)

 

[dannyjbiggs]

I shot these 120 grain bullets with gas checks out of my M1 Carbine (until it was stolen), worked quit well.

 

[mikeinct]

451 Whitworth wrote : " all will accept a .005''+ oversize cast " Humm, I can't get that little 113 grain Lee soup can shaped [should be .311dia.] bullet up to much over .310 as cast. The RCBS 163Gr 30caliber drops at .309/.310 [not as round] & it shoots better {Go Figure} . Both use newer style copper Hornady crimp on Gas Checks. So Far my testing has only been with Unique powder in the 30 calibers. 7grs.-11.5 grains in the larger 30-06, 30-30 & .308 cases.

 

[RegionRat]

I should slug it. I bought both 311 & 308 Diameter 125 grain Jacketed bullets. It Shot both well.

Yes, I was surprised how sensitive the diameter is with cast bullets.
You want to know the diameter as a reference point. While you can run this blind by just experimenting with sizing the bullets, it isn't a bad idea to slug the barrel to know how it runs towards the muzzle.

 

[MQ1]

Between This Covid Pandemic & component shortage. I have been trying to Cast & load my own cast rifle bullets. I want to take a deer with one of my older hunting rifles this year. So I'm kinda motivated. The 375 H&H no problems with cast bullets & reduced loads. The two 35 calibers I have been messing around with show lots of promise [tons of fun] . It is the 30 caliber slugs giving me second thoughts/issues/fits. Anyone here use homemade cast bullets in the 30 caliber rifles [any odd cartridge] ? Either to plink with or hunt deer sized game ? Thanks in advance, mike in ct. PS: I follow a few of the threads over at Cast Boolits. But I can't duplicate those results.

mikeinct,

I’ve cast for probably about 20 some years now, mostly .44, .444, .45 and of late, 30-30. What results are you trying to replicate that you can’t quite get?

MQ1

 

[mikeinct]

mikeinct,

I’ve cast for probably about 20 some years now, mostly .44, .444, .45 and of late, 30-30. What results are you trying to replicate that you can’t quite get?

MQ1

Yeah me too since the 1970's almost always pistol bullets. The Rifle & cartridge I want to hunt with is 100+ year old 1894 Winchester 30WCF / the old 30-30. If it can be say under 2" groups at 70yds. & I can drive that bullet over 1800fps [not sure exactly] for proper expansion & penetration tests come next. mikeinct

 

[451whitworth]

Yeah me too since the 1970's almost always pistol bullets. The Rifle & cartridge I want to hunt with is 100+ year old 1894 Winchester 30WCF / the old 30-30. If it can be say under 2" groups at 70yds. & I can drive that bullet over 1800fps [not sure exactly] for proper expansion & penetration tests come next. mikeinct

If you have an old rifle that was fired with corrosive primer ammo and not cleaned properly (like almost all 100 plus yr. old rifles) it can be very difficult to sometimes impossible to get them to shoot cast because the bores are so rough they destroy the bullet before it leaves the barrel. On the subject of bullet size one of the best tips I ever found was in an old LBT mold catalog. There was a section discussing ordering one mold to fit multiple rifles. The example given was ordering a .30 cal mold that dropped a bullet @.312" and shooting them as large as will chamber freely, sizing down as needed for the tight chambered ones. This is where buying from a company like Accurate Molds comes in handy as you choose the diameter the mold is cut at and they guarantee it won't drop smaller compared to buying off the shelf RCBS, Lee, Lyman molds which these days seem to have various diameters (usually too small).

 

[451whitworth]

One more thing about loading cast. Modern dies made on CNC equipment are many times too tight tolerance for loading oversize cast bullets. You can feel the seating die squeezing the expanded and flared neck down long before the bullet is seated which results in your .311" or whatever diameter bullet being squeezed/shaved down smaller. RCBS cowboy dies were made just for this issue. What I do is just buy an older production set of used dies for the caliber being loaded manufactured pre early '90's because the seating dies have plenty of "slop" in the neck area allowing oversized bullets.

 

[WayneShaw]

I have been shooting cast benchrest for the past 3 years. Every bullet I have fired has been powder coated. Conventional lubing is messy and it makes your gun messy. I shoot 30 caliber, I size the bullets to .310" I size before powder coat and again after powder coat. You can push a PC bullet a lot faster than grease lubed bullet with zero fear of leading. I use gas checks, so I size/crimp those on, coat, then size again.

I shoot either a 30BR or lately a 30PPC. I love the PPC version, but it has some challenges. I don't use pistol powder, H4198, H322, RL7 or RL10 all will work.

 

[JSH]

Size is King.
Rifles I load for or have loaded for, it would be easier to say what bore size I have not tried yet.
Powders, there are numerous ones that work ok to great. SR4759 is a great loss to the community.
I have tried coated and just can’t warm up to them. Besides I have enough FWFL to last two life times.
Custom molds will save a HUGE amount of grief. This day and age any machined product should be as designed and advertised. Molds from years gone by may or may not be a bargain, like the box of chocolates you never know what your gonna get. FYI lube dies can be the same way, don’t believe everything stamped on them.

Hard alloy has caused me more grief than a softer alloy.

Shooting leading out with a jacketed bullet, the first Einstein that did this and claimed it worked, may all of your alloy become contaminated with zinc.
Biggest mess I ever had with cast, you have been warned.
As far as leading goes, did you quit shooting when you got jacket fouling? Can be a little harder to remove, be patient grasshopper.

 

[JSH]

I have been shooting cast benchrest for the past 3 years. Every bullet I have fired has been powder coated. Conventional lubing is messy and it makes your gun messy. I shoot 30 caliber, I size the bullets to .310" I size before powder coat and again after powder coat. You can push a PC bullet a lot faster than grease lubed bullet with zero fear of leading. I use gas checks, so I size/crimp those on, coat, then size again.

I shoot either a 30BR or lately a 30PPC. I love the PPC version, but it has some challenges. I don't use pistol powder, H4198, H322, RL7 or RL10 all will work.

I have not stayed up to speed with the CBA the past half dozen years.

Some of your comments make me chuckle, I have been casting for a day or two. Started about 1985.
Lube is messy and dirties my gun……….I have indoor plumbing and bathe on a daily basis, depending on what I do may bathe multiple times a day. I in turn have no problem giving my cast bullet shooter a quick bath.

I am a nobody and hold no national records. I have made numerous jacketed shooters eat crow, on paper and over the chronograph.

In my eyes, powder coating is no different than copper clad, copper clad is no different than jacketed.

A black powder rifle shoots black powder.

There are muzzle loaders that shoot smokeless artificial BP with jacketed bullets.

Seems terms get thrown to a generic area.

 

[WayneShaw]

Before I started shooting cast myself, I did quite a bit of gun work for cast shooters. Every barrel I pulled off had caked on grease on the breach of the barrel, and the locking lug area was caked with grease, some packed solid with only enough room for the bolt to rotate to battery. Just look at the muzzle of a grease gun, most have grease on them. Obviously, proper gun cleaning was not part of their shooting regimen.

Powder coating is no where near a copped clad bullet, and neither are equal to a jacketed bullet.

 

[CharlieNC]

Here's what I would do. Fire a full power .311" jacketed load. Measure I.D. of fired case neck. As an example: let's say it measures .314"- that's the diameter I would start with. The idea is to fill the case neck area of the chamber to keep the cartridge centered with just enough clearance for bullet release. Keeping the cast bullet centered with the bore is key. If the cast bullet is too small (even if sized over groove diameter) the cartridge is laying on the bottom of the chamber and the bullet will slam into the bore at a slight angle. Cast bullets are too soft to handle slamming "sideways" and will distort and groups will be large. Another example: My Browning M71 .348 Winchester was what I cut my teeth on learning to shoot cast in high school back in the '80's. Obviously the jacketed bullet diameter is .348" but when shooting cast bullets sized .349'' and then .350" they hit the target sideways and groups were measured in feet at 50 yards. I next tried .352" and finally got a 6" group at 50 yards and the bullets stopped key hole-ing. I eventually found that the rifle would accept a .354" diameter bullet and chamber it freely without resistance. This lead to shooting sub 2" five shot groups at 100 yards with a receiver sight at 2050 fps. Interestingly I now own four M71's both original Winchesters and Browning repro's and all will accept a .005''+ oversize cast bullet.

That's interesting!

 

[rockhound78]

My 308 has about .007' neck clearance with jacketed and about .004" with cast

 

[WayneShaw]

One more thing about loading cast. Modern dies made on CNC equipment are many times too tight tolerance for loading oversize cast bullets. You can feel the seating die squeezing the expanded and flared neck down long before the bullet is seated which results in your .311" or whatever diameter bullet being squeezed/shaved down smaller. RCBS cowboy dies were made just for this issue. What I do is just buy an older production set of used dies for the caliber being loaded manufactured pre early '90's because the seating dies have plenty of "slop" in the neck area allowing oversized bullets.

451 is right. When moving into the cast bullet world, many standard things don't work well, or at all. Just about all cast bullets are sized over jacketed bullets. Many dies do not play well with that. Seaters won't take the larger size, sizing dies with pull through buttons don't open the necks enough for the over size bullets. Loaded rounds are bigger than chamber. This here is very important. Things need to be checked for safety.

 

[243winxb]

Keeping the cast bullet centered with the bore is key.

A "Bore Rider" may help? Have not tried it. https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/bore-rider.6221/

 

[Cbashooter]

In a 1-17 twist 30BR, what would be a good load with cast bullets.

I have shot a lot of hard cast bullets in big handguns, never in a rifle.

There was a fellow over

In a 1-17 twist 30BR, what would be a good load with cast bullets.

I have shot a lot of hard cast bullets in big handguns, never in a rifle.

HL Yarbrough I think with the guy's name in our cast bullet association matches used a 17 twist and shooting A hard 150g cast bullet at quite high velocities and setting records. I can dig through the journals and get data for you.


The problem you are going to have is most 30BR jacketed bullet guns have a rather short throat compared to what we use in 30BR for cast.

 

[BigBolt]

I cast and shoot 300-400 HCFNGC chambered 45/70, 350-375 HCFNGC .500 S&W and 125-200 HCFN 30/30 Custom molds from Accurate Molds

 

[Sechrist2015]

In a 1-17 twist 30BR, what would be a good load with cast bullets.

I have shot a lot of hard cast bullets in big handguns, never in a rifle.

Not sure on a 17" twist. We have 3-4 30br lead guns all built on 13" twist. Cast bullets are varying weights between 165gr-195gr. Best group on the reloading cabinet door is 0.164" 5 shot with 165gr backed with some N135.

My whole family shoots in the Cast Bullet Association, and my Dad is the regional director for the south east. Cast shooting can be a lot of fun when it works, but it will drive you crazy.

To the OP, if you have a specific caliber you need help with feel free to shoot me a message and we'll see what we can come up with. In 30 cal we load 30-30, a 30-30 wildcat, 30br, a 7.62x39 wildcat, 30-06, 308, and we've played with some odd 308 based wildcats we inherited.

 

[Wolfdog91]

I've been going down the rabbit hole of powder coated cast bullets in .223 out of my AR