Any New Scuttlebutt on Mid Range Nationals @ Camp Perry?

[Mudcat]

Gents, let me make something clear here, I am NOT proposing that if you are on a real team you are not disregarding your coach, but then, if you are a real team, you arent going to have some newb calling your wind. If you are in contention, you are going to have a coach that knows what he/she is doing or they are going to tell you that you may want to run the knobs yourself.

Maybe I am spoiled or lucky, but when I shoot on a team, I usually have a coach who I KNOW can do the job, or they are a coach that knows that they cant and defers to the shooter when they know they cant get it done (talking local team matches here, but even then, most of those I am on a team with top notch guys so its not an issue).

And, while I am a just a noob, I spent a few minutes under a coach as a DATP and you will note that I dont take a spotting scope to the line with me, I just show up with mat, ammo and a rifle and try to shoot good shots and make good calls. Second guessing my coach isnt on the agenda.

So sorry if some of yall misunderstood my comments, but I was referring to a situation where you might have a pickup team or club team where you know you got a guy on the knobs that doesnt know jack and IF you are in contention, you probably arent going to have him run your knobs for ya, but I also assume you would TALK about it first and have that plan in place. Otherwise, I agree, my shooter better be shooting center and letting me run the knobs, otherwise, it probably wont work well.

Thus, unwad the skivvies.....

 

[clowdis]

John,
You're right on the money with both posts!!!
Blair

 

[Va Jim]

Id go back but it is too close to the FCNC and the FCWC. Maybe next year.
VA JIM

 

[XTR]

Id go back but it is too close to the FCNC and the FCWC. Maybe next year.
VA JIM

Jim, I'd try to fit it in just for the practice shooting in the kind of wind we'll likely see at Raton. I never see wind like that on the ranges I shoot and I'm certain that the experience at CP helped me at Raton in the afternoon matches. (the freaky calm morning matches last yr, that's another matter)

 

[Steve Blair]

Jim, I'd try to fit it in just for the practice shooting in the kind of wind we'll likely see at Raton. I never see wind like that on the ranges I shoot and I'm certain that the experience at CP helped me at Raton in the afternoon matches. (the freaky calm morning matches last yr, that's another matter)

[br]
I think Jim sees plenty of wind at Butner. You should have come to Phoenix for the Berger SW LR Nationals. There was some wind Saturday.

 

[boltman13]

Sleepygator, some wind at the Berger SW Nationals? The Titanic was some ship wreck too.

 

[RCurtis]

Looks like the course of fire for this years National Mid Range Championship is as follows

MATCH 805
Fired
Monday, August 5
Course of Fire
2 sighting shots and 20 shots for record at 300/500/600 yds, slow fire, prone.
Targets
1. Mid-Range: MR-63, MR-65, MR-1.
2. F-Class Mid-Range: MR-63/wMR63FC, MR-65/wMR-65FC,
MR-1/wMR-1FC.

MATCH 806
Fired
Tuesday, August 6
Course of Fire
2 sighting shots and 20 shots for record, 3x600 yds., slow fire, prone.
Targets
1. Mid-Range: MR-1.
2. F-Class Mid-Range: MR-1/wMR-1FC.

MID-RANGE PRONE TEAM MATCH 815
Fired
Wednesday, August 7
Open To
2-person Teams, see NRA Rules 2.10, 2.11, 2.12 and 2.13. All team members,
firing and non-firing, must be from the same organization and registered
with the Statistical Office. Non-firing registered military coaches and
military competitors may act as coaches without regard to “same organization”
provisions. If a Mid-Range Prone Team represents a State Association,
the name of the State must be used in the name of the team.
Team Entry
Entry for this NRA Team match must be made at the Camp Perry Entry
Office, Building 950. Pick-up and Out-of-Competition teams are welcome
to compete however are not eligible for awards. Scores will appear in an
Out-of-Competition ranking. Individual scores fired in the team match
will count towards the 3-day aggregate awards and the overall individual
aggregate awards.
Course of Fire
(2 relays of Teams) 2 sighting shots and 20 shots for record at 300/500/600
yds, slow fire, prone. Teams will score for each other.

MATCH 807
Fired
Thursday, August 8
Course of Fire
2 sighting shots and 20 shots for record at 300/500/600 yds, slow fire, prone.
Targets
1. Mid-Range: MR-63, MR-65, MR-1.
2. F-Class Mid-Range: MR-63/wMR63FC, MR-65/wMR-65FC,
MR-1/wMR-1FC.

MATCH 808
Fired
Friday, August 9
Course of Fire
2 sighting shots and 20 shots for record, 3x600 yds., slow fire, prone.
Targets
1. Mid-Range: MR-1.
2. F-Class Mid-Range: MR-1/wMR-1FC.

 

[NateG]

I think Jim sees plenty of wind at Butner. You should have come to Phoenix for the Berger SW LR Nationals. There was some wind Saturday.

Butner can get pretty tricky at times (there are plenty of days where I'm quite happy to have the full-sized LR target 10-ring, rather than the LR-F), but it's a very, very different flavor of tricky than Perry and Ben Avery. I've never shot Raton, but I'm pretty sure it's more like Perry than Butner.

 

[Steve Blair]

Nate, [br]
I've not shot at Perry but Ben Avery is similar to Raton. Each has some peculiarities. The only thing I would question about Perry is the humidity and effect on mirage and sight picture.

 

[NateG]

Nate, [br]
I've not shot at Perry but Ben Avery is similar to Raton. Each has some peculiarities. The only thing I would question about Perry is the humidity and effect on mirage and sight picture.

They definitely have their own character, but Perry and Avery tend toward the higher speed but honest winds. At Butner you won't have as much windage on your gun, but the changes are often fast and a challenge to pick up on before you get caught on the wrong side of a change. At Avery/Perry, the normal condition is more wind, but it's more readable and changes less quickly.

For us east-coast shooters, there aren't as many opportunities to shoot in wind strong enough that it washes out the mirage and forces you to read off the flags. Plus, most of the east coast ranges have flags up against the trees, and reading based on them can be quite an exercise in frustration at times. And I know I can use a good bit more practice reading wind based on flags--I don't have much experience with having more than 6 or 7 minutes on my gun at 1000. I hope to get an education in that in South Africa next month... (and that the experience doesn't cost me too many points! )

As to the humidity at Perry... for an iron sight shooter, it's a good thing as it makes the mirage stand out a bit better. (Well, setting aside the discomfort from the heat/humidity, anyway) Shooting with a scope probably changes the calculus a bit, especially when you're using a scope more powerful than the 20-25X that's more common for any-sight sling shooting.

 

[Gundog64]

Now that I see the match program the individual matches are 60 shots per day.

But I'm confused, where does the program state what sights we would use for the matches? All iron, All any, or any/iron?

 

[mdelco1]

rick

i found no reference to iron or any in each match...have you figured that out thx mark

 

[RCurtis]

Mark,

I can find no mention of sights in the program. I had heard that Aug 5 and 6 were individual irons 7 was the team (irons) and Aug 8-9 were anysights.

Rick

 

[clowdis]

The program mentions service rifle, match rifle and F-class rifles. To me that means that the whole thing is iron sights except for F-class. Now the question will begin "match rifle or any rifle"? Does this eliminate Palma rifles? Anybody got the 3.1 etc........rules? http://issuu.com/compshoot/docs/2013campperry/1

 

[NateG]

The program mentions service rifle, match rifle and F-class rifles. To me that means that the whole thing is iron sights except for F-class. http://issuu.com/compshoot/docs/2013campperry/1

But they often use "match rifle" to describe the courses of fire for Long Range, when they really mean "any rifle". So I wouldn't put too much weight on the use of "match" rather than "any". Unless they really do mean match, which would be odd. (But it's also odd to have an NRA individual aggregate include scores from team matches.)

It's more reason why they should kill off the "match rifle" designation and only use "any rifle" with any/iron or any/any, as appropriate.

 

[clowdis]

Nate,
Agree 100%! I think that one of the 3.1, 3.2, 3.3.1, 3.3.2 will designate "any" rifle and Palma rifle but I don't have a rule book handy.

 

[NateG]

Nate,
Agree 100%! I think that one of the 3.1, 3.2, 3.3.1, 3.3.2 will designate "any" rifle and Palma rifle but I don't have a rule book handy.

3.1 is Service Rifle, 3.2 is Any, 3.3 is Match Rifle, but 3.3.1 is US Palma Rifle, and 3.3.2 is Any Sight Match/Tactical Rifle.

So, they're saying Service, Any, Palma, and Match/Any.

Oh, and it looks like they changed the definition of "palm rest" from 3.25" to 3.6" deep.

 

[clowdis]

Also changed the "any" rifle rules to allow the use of Scheutzen type buttplates. And it also looks like the mid and long range Nationals will be open to F-class shooters this year. Last year's F-class match program must have been successful. This should help keep Camp Perry rolling for a while.

 

[NateG]

Also changed the "any" rifle rules to allow the use of Scheutzen type buttplates.

That's been there at least as long as I've been aware of it. I've got a smallbore buttplate on my tube gun, and I would adjust it flatter when I was shooting it across the course, then put more depth in it when I was shooting it in a prone match (where it could be an any rifle). Recently, most of my prone match shooting has been with a Palma gun, which keeps the buttplate rules of the match rifle, so I haven't bothered. But now I think I'll probably add a bit more curve to the buttplate with the new rules.

 

[FroggyOne2]

I am curious how many folks plan to attend this. Would like to put together a good team. Any TNSSA memebers planning on going?